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This week in Iraq (pg. 4)
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
if it was more than just WMD's then the logical fallacy that "it was a lie" becomes even more insignifigant, doesn't it?
if you could stand in the middle of Iraqi Parliament while it's in session and ask them one question, what would it be?
...and furthermore, while you were standing there, would you have the guts to tell them they didn't belong there? |
Always find it hilarious when people sitting at home on the internet are defending an invasion of a foreign country under the pretext of forcefully turning it into a democracy...a beautiful, lofty ideal indeed. Like a democracy is as easy to make as an Easy Mac dinner.
4,000+ dead American soldiers, the complete decimation of a country's middle class, untold numbers of dead civilians.
Again, really funny when a guy sitting on his computer is arguing all of their lives were worth it on an internet forum. I'm sure all those dead people agree it was the right thing to do.
Your idea that this war is about "more", about that great shining beacon of freedom that is democracy, basically proves that this is a 21st century Vietnam... |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you are sheeple. you believe something but have no evidence to support it. someone told you it was a lie and you liked the way it sounded.
Clinton bags some broad in the Oval Office then lies about it, he gets impeached. your claiming a few thousand American soldiers died because Bush lied and he gets low poll #'s. you don't find that odd? |
Calling me a "sheeple", or "special" (codeword for "retarded") adds nothing to the debate. It's probably best you stick to the points.
| quote: | of course you don't. it doesn't fit your theory. in fact, it contradicts it so of course you don't care what they say. are you saying they're all in on the lie as well?
these are the same politicians that not only gave Bush the authority to go to war but, but parroted "the lie". youre not holding them accountable, youre ignoring them.
thats the whole idea of a separate branch of government. they had independent access to the same intelligence. why would they lie about Saddam having WMD's. |
The vast majority of politicians didn't have in-depth inside intelligence briefings everyday of the week. Most of them trusted the president to such matters. So when, especially only 2 years after 9/11, the president says Saddam has WMDs, they took him at his word. I do not give them pass as you say. If these politicians do not retract their pro-war stances, then they should pay with their jobs. Hillary Clinton voted for the war. But guess what? She retracted her initiate view of the war.
Nice video, but it does justice no good. Try youtubing "Scott Ritter".
| quote: | | you are assuming that the CIA, IAEA had no evidence to back up their claim that Saddam did have WMD's and all the evidence they had was contradictory. you're wrong. we had years of evidence and intell that he did have WMD's. we had much more evidence that he did than we had evidence saying that he didn't. what you don't understand is that people were not willing to take the risk that he didn't have them based on what little evidence we had pointing to that fact compared to what we had long assumed. |
Absolutely wrong. There was no undisbutable evidence of a WMD program. This is verified by several sources. A suspicion of such a program is not proof of a WMD program. You want to talk about risk. North Korea is known to have nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, and has in their military strategy the use of such weapons, as merely conventional. Why doesn't the empire want to invade North Korea? Hmm...Makes ya think don't it? There's no doubt about North Korea's WMDs, but yet here you are trumping on about Saddam's non-existent WMDs.
| quote: | | which is not lying. yet we had plenty of evidence to say that he did. |
You jump to conclusions when you lack credible evidence. I consider it lying when you are told something isn't credible, but you continue to espouse the views as credible.
| quote: | | you're talking about "curveball" the Germans never let us lay our hands on curveball. by German law, we weren't EVER given access to curveball. so again, you've been tricked into believing something not true and it's led you down a path. |
No sorry, but within the CIA, there were many intense discussions about the credibility, or rather, lack thereof, of "Curveball". This just goes to show the Bush admin's determination to invade Iraq from the very first week in office, with whatever trumped up intelligence they could come up with. Credibility was the last thing on their minds.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0402-01.htm
| quote: | | proof. thats all i ask. something that would stand up in a court of law. |
You have proof. Whether you accept it or not is something you have to examine yourself. Here's the jist. Shoddy intelligence is repeated over and over and over again to the American people and to the Congress, insiders make known the shoddiness of such intelligence, Bush administration ignores it and continues to spew their false premises. Don Rumsfeld said he knew where the WMDs were! They were in Tikrit! Ok Donny, you've proved to be the most laughable Defense Secretary in the history of that office.
| quote: | | ok let me put it to you this way. you're saying that Buler is basically the "bad cop", the corrupt police officer and Saddam's Iraq was the poor helpless hippie that got pulled over in his VW bus on his way to California. if Buler knew what he was telling the world was a lie, that no WMD's were in Iraq in 2003, why didn't he just plant some like a crooked cop dropping an 8-ball on the floorboard? why didn't the corrupt Neocons save themselves years of grief and just plant some WMD's? they killed every one of Saddam's merry band of losers including his sons, it would have been so easy and noone would have been the wiser. |
It's not they they "knew nothing existed". It's the fact that even after being told the intelligence is shoddy, that there is no definitive evidence to support a Iraqi WMD conclusion, they stated as fact something which was false, and mentioned to them as not definitive. That, to me, is blatant deception. Just because you believe your own deception doesn't mean you are not a deceiver.
| quote: | | if you say so, but you have to make sense out of it all. you're failing that and just telling me he lied. you need to do better than that otherwise it remains purely propaganda. |
I don't say so. The 9/11 commission, Iraq Study Group, and other investigations PROVE the deceptions of the Bush administration. You can that propaganda all you want. These are TRUTHS.
| quote: | | no. they're just false (as far as Saddam's WMD's). you make a huge jump when you say it's a lie. |
I call any deception a lie. You're trying to defend them by saying, "oh but they believed in it, it's not a lie!" Just because someone believes their own lies, doesn't mean they aren't lying.
No, not wrong. The occupation force is more than just soldiers. For every soldier, there is a contractor. So in this case, the occupation force is 300,000+.
| quote: | | there are many deals going on >LINK< whats your point? |
What is this? A blog? Come on now...
If you stop nit-picking my posts and take everything in its proper context, Iraq is not a sovereign unified state. The central government of Iraq is too weak to control its own oil supply. Occupation of a state means that state is a puppet government, not sovereign, and at the mercy of the occupiers commercial interests. In layman's terms, plunder is the role of the aggressor occupier.
| quote: | | evidence? and why would that be any different for them compared to any other government? look at ours. |
I'm sure Lebez knows much more than I do. But the government is unable to pass provincial elections laws, they are unable to pass laws governing oil profits distribution, they are unable to pass laws about the status of Kirkuk. These are simple deadlocks of government. These are laws necessary for the very function of the country. The government is paralyzed. Political blocks seemingly boycott every few months. What kind of governance is that?
| quote: | | i should listen to their government as you should. |
Yea, the non-sovereign government we installed... Hey, this government tells you, they want the occupation to end by 2010. Are you going to listen?
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and what's with this "buler"? Hitler was Hitler. Bush is Bush. |
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| Krypton |
Q5echo, and anyone else, who wants to hear Bush's lies, AND, a rebuttal, watch this University of Utah debate between Fox News pundit Sean Hannity and Utah Lake City mayor Rocky Anderson.
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Q5echo, and anyone else, who wants to hear Bush's lies, AND, a rebuttal, watch this University of Utah debate between Fox News pundit Sean Hannity and Utah Lake City mayor Rocky Anderson.
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49:30-54:51 of that video FTW |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
49:30-54:51 of that video FTW |
Sean Hannity disgusts me. |
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| hardcore trancer |
What a in douchebag Hannity truly is and those stupid sheeps in the audience cheering for his comments. |
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| Clovis |
| Sean Hannity is such a ing idiot. |
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| Kinezi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
Sean Hannity is such a ing idiot. |
Stick to COR. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kinezi
Stick to COR. |
No. What the are you going to do about it? |
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| Kinezi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
No. What the are you going to do about it? |
Look this is not the place to make stupid/funny one-liners.. unless you got something substantial to post .. or to back something with quotes and sources .. refrain yourself from posting in this Room.. smartasses like you dont do any good to this room/threads.. |
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| Krypton |
| Anybody notice how Sean Hannity relied HUGELY on emotional arguments and personal insults. What a joke.. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kinezi
Look this is not the place to make stupid/funny one-liners.. unless you got something substantial to post .. or to back something with quotes and sources .. refrain yourself from posting in this Room.. smartasses like you dont do any good to this room/threads.. |
My favorite part about this is that you can't do a ing thing about it. In fact every time you chime in with this bull I remind myself to post here more often.
:stongue: |
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