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Pope = idiot (pg. 5)
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
The church's role is to preach piousness not harm reduction. I think you have to blame the parishioners on this one, not the church. The Catholics that are having unprotected pre/extra marital sex are picking and choosing their sins... the church is teaching them to avoid both, if they would listen then they wouldn't have a problem. |
They aren't teaching harm reduction though (not directly anyways. I do understand it is implied though.) They aren't condoning the actions. If they were, then it would be different, but they aren't. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by XaNaX
true, but backward ass teachings like this which are completely out of touch with present day reality are exactly why there are less asses in the pews on sunday mornings. at one point it was the position of the church that women should be completely subserviant to men but they have modified that teaching as society changed. why do they feel the need to be so ing backwards when it comes to birth control? |
I can't answer that with any authority as I'm not exactly part of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (the body that advises the college of cardinals on theological issues); however, my guess would be that they believe the position is supported by scripture and theology. Personally, I don't agree with them but I assure you that if I tried to argue the theology with them I'd have my ass handed to me. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I can't answer that with any authority as I'm not exactly part of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (the body that advises the college of cardinals on theological issues); however, my guess would be that they believe the position is supported by scripture and theology. Personally, I don't agree with them but I assure you that if I tried to argue the theology with them I'd have my ass handed to me. |
But someone mentioned that the bible says that the fetus is not considered whole until it is born, and therefore the stand on abortion, birth control, etc should actually be the opposite.
I don't know where it says this nor am I even familiar with this supposed existence of scripture. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
that's inaccurate; they are against artificial birth control. |
Thank you for clarifying. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
They aren't teaching harm reduction though (not directly anyways. I do understand it is implied though.) They aren't condoning the actions. If they were, then it would be different, but they aren't. |
You don't get it, Ben. What the church preaches on this subject is, without question, the best solution to the problem if people would adhere to those teachings. The fact that people do not adhere to those teachings is not the church's failing and it is not the church's role (or concern) to counsel people on how to "sin" in the safest way. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
You don't get it, Ben. What the church preaches on this subject is, without question, the best solution to the problem if people would adhere to those teachings. The fact that people do not adhere to those teachings is not the church's failing and it is not the church's role (or concern) to counsel people on how to "sin" in the safest way. |
I do get that. The Mormon church teaches the same thing, but they are have no qualms with birth control. They actually advocate it. I guess it just comes down to the fact that they have a whack view on BC and I don't see nor understand the reasoning behind this. |
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| Alex |
Ya that natural family planning stuff is really a bit too much for me at this point in my life, that's for damn sure.
Of course there are success stories, but I'm still skeptical.
Any form of contraception is against Church doctrine and is highly frowned upon. The truth of the matter is of course that the Church remains far more forgiving and compassionate than many other forms of Christianity let alone other religions. As Moral Hazard said, thank God for the sacrament of reconciliation because it is extremely difficult to live up to absolutely every one of the Church's many views.
I believe that in the world the Church wished it lived in that no one would have problems with a ban on contraception or abortion, however this isn't the reality. At the moment we have an extremely conservative Pope who will never acknowledge the current benefits of condoms in saving hundreds of thousands of lives in the third world. He simply cannot come out and endorse such things because the Catholic Church never really changes it's views on anything, at least not very much. It's what makes the institution of the Catholic Church so fascinating to many (and so archaic to others).
Also in all this mess of posts about how dumb and evil the Pope is, I don't believe it was mentioned that the Roman Catholic Church is the single largest private provider of health care to people with HIV/AIDs in the entire world. I believe that the Pope's rhetoric might be a bit counter productive but the reality is that condoms WONT solve the problem, and the absolute faith people put in them as a solution WILL NOT help things. Pope JP II said it best. "Stop ing". :p |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alex
I believe that the Pope's rhetoric might be a bit counter productive but the reality is that condoms WONT solve the problem, and the absolute faith people put in them as a solution WILL NOT help things. Pope JP II said it best. "Stop ing". :p |
I am not debating that not engaging in sexual conduct is the best solution. In fact, quite the contrary, it will, obviously, stop the spread, but realistically this is pointless rhetoric. Especially on a world forum about AIDS prevention in a society that sexual conduct outside the bounds of marriage is common.
Condoms will help things. It is by all means not the solution to the problem, but it will curb if not curtail the epidemic. |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
I am not debating that not engaging in sexual conduct is the best solution. In fact, quite the contrary, it will, obviously, stop the spread, but the realistically this is pointless rhetoric to bother saying on a world forum about AIDS prevention in a society that sexual conduct outside the bounds of marriage is common.
Condoms will help things. It is by all means not the solution to the problem, but it will curb if not curtail the epidemic. |
I think condoms will save lives. However having worked in an HIV clinic as volunteer work and having handed out hundreds of packs of condoms and seeing these same dudes/chicks bring their newly infected partners in, it made me realize that it is more of a patch up kind of solution that the world is known for right now.
Time to get extreme about the issue. Cure it or stop ing imo. |
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| KiNeTiC ENeRgY |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alex
Also in all this mess of posts about how dumb and evil the Pope is, I don't believe it was mentioned that the Roman Catholic Church is the single largest private provider of health care to people with HIV/AIDs in the entire world. I believe that the Pope's rhetoric might be a bit counter productive but the reality is that condoms WONT solve the problem, and the absolute faith people put in them as a solution WILL NOT help things. Pope JP II said it best. "Stop ing". :p |
Oh cool, that means they are making mad money from being a health care provider, lol. Religion and mad money making free of taxes go along together well. |
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| Alex |
| quote: | Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY
Oh cool, that means they are making mad money from being a health care provider, lol. Religion and money go along together well. |
What the are you on about?
ing Americans. "Private" doesn't mean they charge for it, it just means they aren't sent over by foreign governments. The care they provide is obviously 100% free. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alex
I think condoms will save lives. However having worked in an HIV clinic as volunteer work and having handed out hundreds of packs of condoms and seeing these same dudes/chicks bring their newly infected partners in, it made me realize that it is more of a patch up kind of solution that the world is known for right now.
Time to get extreme about the issue. Cure it or stop ing imo. |
If it is the same people bringing their new partners in, the original infected people should be marked or some . People that knowingly infect others without them knowing is ed up. |
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