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The Belief Spectrum (pg. 4)
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| Ewwww, humility. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
Ohhh so the mystics said it. What makes them anymore correct than the christians, or jews, or what have you?
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because jesus, moses, mohammed, etc were mystics, lol. that's what christianity, judaism, etc were based on. the teachings of christ say to be like christ - the message is that every person should strive to be a mystic, to experience god directly for himself, within himself.
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
While I agree mostly with everything you've said, and I find myself siding with you, I just think that this particular statement is just another "stratifying" of belief that you protested initially in this thread. Your views are a little more open ended, but am I wrong in thinking that you're doing the exact same thing?
You're implying that people who are atheists (and people who are classified as religious for that matter) are essentially too dimwitted to understand what seems to have enlightened you. The whole idea that only a select group of people (esotericism) have gotten the idea of a "god" correct is exactly what makes up the different religious views of god, it's only being stated in a different way, or am I wrong?
I'm truly wondering if my opinion of what you said is close to what you actually meant.. I guess. I don't really ever engage in these discussions because I don't think I could actually argue at your level, I'll probably get shot down right now with you're reply post which will most likely be peppered with quotes from texts, etc. :P
I don't think I'm an atheist but I don't think I'm very religious either, at least in the true sense of the word. My views are basically that life, essence, creativity, whatever you want to call it, means something more than just what we perceive or feel. I think there are things out there we as human beings can't possibly understand. Whether that makes sense or not I don't know, I just like to think of it in that way. One thing I do not believe in is a god that follows anything remotely close to the constructs of most religion, so we seem to agree on that, or maybe not.
Maybe that's how a "simpleton" views the world, I'm sure you'll enlighten me. |
i did not claim to be personally enlightened - i don't know why you are making this so personal.
i only made the claim that people who are not skeptical of their own beliefs, whether atheists or not, are deluded.
if you think i am stratified or secure in my personal beliefs, then you are presuming and are very mistaken. i have no such delusion (at least not for long!) - it's a constant learning experience for me as much as anyone else. |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
because jesus, moses, mohammed, etc were mystics, lol. that's what christianity, judaism, etc were based on. the teachings of christ say to be like christ - the message is that every person should strive to be a mystic, to experience god directly for himself, within himself.
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Hmmm, well I just never thought of them in that way.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i did not claim to be personally enlightened - i don't know why you are making this so personal.
i only made the claim that people who are not skeptical of their own beliefs, whether atheists or not, are deluded.
if you think i am stratified or secure in my personal beliefs, then you are presuming and are very mistaken. i have no such delusion - it's a constant learning experience. |
Alright then, I hate the internet. Call me presumptuous because that's all I seem to do when I try and step into these discussions. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
Hmmm, well I just never thought of them in that way.
Alright then, I hate the internet. Call me presumptuous because that's all I seem to do when I try and step into these discussions. |
well you made a fair point, personal as it was
the thing is, any time you say something or choose what you believe in, that represents a stratification. (if you're interested in quantum mechanics you can call this a 'collapse of the wavefunction'.) personally i believe this is the way we experience the physical world, time, individuality, etc - as an infinite series of compounded choices of belief that come to reinforce one another (the mental construct).
any time you express an idea with something as definite as words you are going to be eliminating a ton of possibilities and possibly seeming close-minded. i try to be careful with my words to avoid this, but what can you do.
i like to think i'm pretty open minded, and i'm glad that people like you keep me on my toes |
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| enydo |
Alright, I only got so personal because I perceived what you were saying as something personal, it's just hard on a forum through text I guess, at least for me.
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
the thing is, any time you say something or choose what you believe in, that represents a stratification. (if you're interested in quantum mechanics you can call this a 'collapse of the wavefunction'.) personally i believe this is the way we experience the physical world, time, individuality, etc - as an infinite series of compounded choices of belief that come to reinforce one another (the mental construct).
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Yeah, I really like that. I'm very interested in that type of stuff, just not very well versed in it, but I'm trying to improve. I actually just finished Hawking's A Brief History of Time today, not very comprehensive but it was a nice summary of a lot of things. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around most of quantum mechanics though, but I think I've got the gist. |
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| Renzo |
| lol Dawkins :stongue: |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
i doubt that few truly spiritual people conceive of god as the angry old man of the judeochristian old testament. |
ive got news for you then... |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
ive got news for you then... |
hence 'truly spiritual'
people who buy into and spread any dogma are deluded imo, and spiritual for me means 'lover of ultimate truth'. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
hence 'truly spiritual'
people who buy into and spread any dogma are deluded imo, and spiritual for me means 'lover of ultimate truth'. |
That's such an arbitrary load of bollocks. Who are you to arbitrate which superstition is "real" and which is not? |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| I don't think that spirituality has to involve affirming factually false beliefs -- or any beliefs at all, really. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
That's such an arbitrary load of bollocks. Who are you to arbitrate which superstition is "real" and which is not? |
i'm not. that's the point.
the whole discussion is irrelevant if none of them are real - no superstition, no scientific theory. they're all metaphors or approximations, shadows. |
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