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Squeezin the nuts out your mix (pg. 6)
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| Lucidity |
Damaging equipment from clipping is more likely to happen when the master is clipping, not individual tracks. And also, mixing into a compressor is a technic that many people use, its not a cruch for bad mixing, it can be, but it can also be used for creative uses, there are tutorials on it, and Im sure it was talked about here. I dont do it often but, the times i did, i had some decent results. Its just different to normal mixing. You could set the timing according to ur bpm, then leave it and then mix normally but, into a co
pressor. Its not bad, its just different, as long as u dont use extreme settings. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lucidity
Damaging equipment from clipping is more likely to happen when the master is clipping, not individual tracks. And also, mixing into a compressor is a technic that many people use, its not a cruch for bad mixing, it can be, but it can also be used for creative uses, there are tutorials on it, and Im sure it was talked about here. I dont do it often but, the times i did, i had some decent results. Its just different to normal mixing. You could set the timing according to ur bpm, then leave it and then mix normally but, into a co
pressor. Its not bad, its just different, as long as u dont use extreme settings. |
Well, if individual tracks are clipping, but the master itself isn't, that means that the track isn't clipping. At least in the digital realm. Obviously this is different for actual physical mixers.
You may run a risk of damaging your eqipment if you clip the actual amplifier in THAT system, but if you run a *previously clipped* track through a system then you aren't actually clipping *that* system, so you can't possibly be damaging it. All thats happening is that you're running a more square shaped wave through the system. I don't think that anyone is going to claim that running a square wave through a system is likely to damage it... |
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| xphonix |
Mixing into a compressor is a very very common method of working. I am a huge fan of leaving dynamic range as well. Mixing into a compressor will not ruin your dynamic range. I usually have a maximum gain reduction of 2db. The character something like a Alan Smart c2 can add is very pleasing and will help glue your track together as such.
Clipping is used all of the time in mastering. Its just another form of brickwall limiting only clipping can often sound better when clipping a high end AD stage. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
Back on topic - it's surprising that so many people seem to see this issue in such black and white terms. We all make many creative decisions, we all know there are many ways to get our songs to sound the way we want them to.
There are so many great songs which have been made mixing into a compressor on the master channel. There are many great songs which have EQs or limiters on the master channel. There are many great songs which have no processing on the master channel at all.
Absolutely, there are many songs that are ruined due to poor decisions, whether those decisions relate to individual sounds or to master channel processing.
Really, do we need to deal in absolutes, such as "I NEVER do this and this" or "I ALWAYS do this and this"? In the end, if a song sounds fantastic, then whatever was done to the song in the creative process was the correct thing to do for that song. It may not be the correct thing to do for the next song, or someone else's song, but it was right for that one. |
There's nothing creative about destroying dynamic range(Edited) so that your entire song sounds like a brick so that when you preview it on beatport it sounds deeper and brighter than the competition just because you pushed up the loudness.
Think about it: if every sound in your song has a relatively steady level, where is the creativity?
I'm not really convinced we need to listen to bricks when we have volume knobs... |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
There's nothing creative about destroying dynamics so that your entire song sounds like a brick so that when you preview it on beatport it sounds deeper and brighter than the competition just because you pushed up the loudness.
Think about it: if every sound in your song has a relatively steady level, where is the creativity?
I'm not really convinced we need to listen to bricks when we have volume knobs... |
I'll quote from my post which you quoted:
"Absolutely, there are many songs that are ruined due to poor decisions, whether those decisions relate to individual sounds or to master channel processing."
With this comment, I was referring to things like "destroying dynamics so that your entire song sounds like a brick". But with my earlier comment, and again I quote myself, "There are so many great songs which have been made mixing into a compressor on the master channel", I was referring to songs which haven't been destroyed in this manner.
Things aren't black and white. Putting a compressor on your master channel doesn't automatically destroy the song. It totally depends on the settings you use. I occasionally use a compressor on the master track if I feel the song will benefit from it, but most of the time my songs don't benefit from this treatment. It is a creative option I reserve the right to use from time to time. |
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| Sonic_c |
Clipping individual tracks in the analogue world is widely done as it can give charater to a sound as long as master is ok. I know a drum and bass producer that does this to his bass track to give it the overdriven analogue feel.
I think this thing comes down to the art/marketing debate if you pick a piece of music to enjoy as art then you wouldnt want an overcompressed brick mp3 of beatport. If you are record label trying to make money then your products have to be homogenous with the other stuff out there or you risk not selling. Look at tv advertisments in the uk at least banks all have similar ads, insurance comparison sites all use cheap cut out animation ads etc etc. If you make the same as everyone else then you stand a chance of selling some units.
but is a song a unit? are you an artist if you intend on making units? |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
There's nothing creative about destroying dynamics so that your entire song sounds like a brick so that when you preview it on beatport it sounds deeper and brighter than the competition just because you pushed up the loudness.
Think about it: if every sound in your song has a relatively steady level, where is the creativity?
I'm not really convinced we need to listen to bricks when we have volume knobs... |
Throwing a comp on the master doesn't destroy dynamics. It can give you more dynamics as you'll be less afraid that stabby sounds are going to clip. I suppose its not appropriate for trance since trance has long sweeping pads more than rhythmic syncopated stabs. But for the style I'm producing now (deep house along the Nacho Marco, Francois Dubois, Sian, etc lines) I find that it helps to keep the mix in check and retains the dynamic range overall. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
Clipping individual tracks in the analogue world is widely done as it can give charater to a sound as long as master is ok. I know a drum and bass producer that does this to his bass track to give it the overdriven analogue feel.
I think this thing comes down to the art/marketing debate if you pick a piece of music to enjoy as art then you wouldnt want an overcompressed brick mp3 of beatport. If you are record label trying to make money then your products have to be homogenous with the other stuff out there or you risk not selling. Look at tv advertisments in the uk at least banks all have similar ads, insurance comparison sites all use cheap cut out animation ads etc etc. If you make the same as everyone else then you stand a chance of selling some units.
but is a song a unit? are you an artist if you intend on making units? |
your talking about something else. I'm talking about unnoticable clipping which is used to simply give a track an extra .03 of headroom or something. You're talking about using really obvious clipping as a distortion effect.
You can be an artist and still produce high quality, high volume tracks. Its only if the volume takes away from the track that its a problem. You need to do what is right for the track. |
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| Sonic_c |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
your talking about something else. |
I was sorry was just giving an example where it is acceptable to clip a track. |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Throwing a comp on the master doesn't destroy dynamics. It can give you more dynamics as you'll be less afraid that stabby sounds are going to clip. I suppose its not appropriate for trance since trance has long sweeping pads more than rhythmic syncopated stabs. But for the style I'm producing now (deep house along the Nacho Marco, Francois Dubois, Sian, etc lines) I find that it helps to keep the mix in check and retains the dynamic range overall. |
How in the hell can compressing your mix give it more dynamics??? A compressor reduces dynamic range, it doesnt increase it :conf: |
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| cronodevir |
I should get my popcorn, the usually disunity here is astounding.
People now..actually claim if you clip the master hard as , the hard and more dynamic range and headroom you get. Well, you better go to every mastering engineer you have ever met and tell them YOU YOU ARE WRONG.
So lets see, slap a compressor and limiter on the master, keep an rms of 0db [track has to be its loudest as humanly possible..apparently] clip the master by hundreds of db. And you will have great music.
I didn't know mastering was so easy, and GUESS WHAT, with this sytem, YOU DON'T HAVE TO MIX, OH MY GOD. THEY HAVE FOUND A WAY TO REMOVE MIXING FROM THE PROCESS, BECAUSE EVERY SOUND AT ALL TIMES HAS A DYNAMIC RANGE OF 0DB TO 0DB W00T....
DJ RANN and his lackys at work.
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: I wish they had the laughing smiliy that is crying, it would be even funnyer. |
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| Theran |
1. Compress the masterbus and you will lose dynamics.
2. Clipping the masterbus will not create headroom.
... why am I even bothering.... |
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