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Is there really an audience?
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| PutBoy |
Here's something I've been wondering about for a long time.
Is there really an audience for EDM beside the people who wither produce it or play it (as DJs)? I listen to House all day long, and I mean all day long, but that's only because
a) I enjoy it because of the production that went in to it, and I recognize the effort and thought that the producer put into it
b) I'm looking for DJ material
I don't think I would casually listen to it if I weren't an aspiring/n00b DJ/producer, and I have only rarely come across people who just listen to this type of music, and doesn't own at least two decks and a mixer. Those who don't own it, are all currently saving up for it
So, is this all just a big pyramid scheme?
Yes, there are the club goers, but I've always thought that the people who go to clubs often also wants to be DJ's.
Thoughts? Or am I just jaded? |
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| echosystm |
| no one listens to EDM, ever. |
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| Sonic_c |
Ask them |
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| Sonic_c |
Or them |
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| PutBoy |
Yeah, but are they not there just to have good time?
Do you think they buy albums?
Well I guess I just got pwned... |
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| Sonic_c |
I have a lesson on music industry and all we do or at least all they do is moan "wah...no one buys music...wah" or "wah...there is no money in music anymore". My teacher just laughs and says ok so no one buys any music and smiles to himself knowingly.
You have to consider the market so maybe the majority of people shopping on beatport etc are aspiring djs etc etc. They then take it to a wider audience who may have paid to see the dj. So your next trance classic as part of a wider market does generate revenue and there is an audience.
Secondly the other probably smaller share are the guys on the bus with their new phones pumping out the latest "bassline house" choon. Who have either download illegally or payed 79p for it on there wap connection. There is market number 2
Thirdly which I think is the holy grail of EDM. Royalties! a tutor at my university is friends with a few guys had a synthy edm band in early 90's. Just by chance the BBC used a sample from there song about 10 seconds on a channel ident they did on tv that ran between every break program anything. Each member of that band still gets a half yearly check for £17,000 in royalties was much more before. So there is another audience the viewers at home that dont really realise they arte listening to edm but they are.
EDIT: Look at moby
If you think outside the box just because someone isn't buying a trance album doesn't mean they are not your "audience" and therefore contributing in some way to the career side of EDM.
Oh and my little sisters not a dj and she has all of armins albums a few hard trance ones and like loads of others. |
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| Sonic_c |
| quote: | Originally posted by PutBoy
Well I guess I just got pwned... |
even though i been on forums for a while I havent taken time to learn that that means? is it like flamed? |
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| Stephen Wiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
even though i been on forums for a while I havent taken time to learn that that means? is it like flamed? |
pwned is l33tspeak for "owned" aka getting put in your place...
I disagree here though. The pictures posted above are from some of the largest festivals each year, so of course they will have people.
Those festivals are not what matters. They're like the Superbowl. Everybody is going to watch it (or in this case attend those events) The true indicators are the local scenes and people buying, appreciating, and LISTENING to EDM. All signs seem to point down lately (and have for a while)
We have way, WAY too many chiefs and too few indians. It seems everybody these days that listens to EDM is producing, djing, running a label, etc. Casual listeners are becoming extinct and buying music/CDs isn't even worth talking about because it doesn't happen enough to make a smidge of difference. Trust me....I run a label. It is a problem when I have an album at #1 for both overall Trance and #1 for Progressive house @ Juno with only a little more than 30 units sold.
Deadmau5 (boy do I dislike this guy) has sold over 75,000 units on Beatport and brought in a little over $20,000 from them. That's over the course of since he began releasing (I'll let you do the math) - $20,000 is probably 1 or 2 weeks of touring for the kid....
If you're in this for money, #1 you're a fool, and #2 you should look elsewhere. There is no money left in dance music and it doesn't appear anything will be changing soon. This is not a completely bad thing though, as music purists have stuck around while the guys who used to make a living off producing and pressing vinyls bailed and showed their true colors.
And, don't even get me started on somewhat known artists asking for outrageous advances that wouldn't cover themselves even if the track was to chart #1 on Beatport...
:whip: |
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| Sonic_c |
Speaking of juno i sent you a track wiley ;)
But I have to disagree with you im afraid on the whole no money in EDM. There is money in performance, royalties, and sales. I know a guy that only 4 months ago got a 3000 euro advance from a major label. I also know a guy that before the whole PRS-Youtube thing fell through used to put his music on youtube and get royalties from that.
Also this 30 sales at the top of Juno album chart that cant be so. Anjunabeats and armada are top and you cant tell me Oceanlab sell less than 30 albums on Juno?
And one more thing while I am on my box, my friend David gets paid £500 a time to remix peoples songs into EDM because he did some work with Sash a few years back. He is also being flown out to america to work with a band I cant remember atm but I'll post when i can to make a trance remix of a pop song they have.
He may only have 2-3 remixes a month but thats £18000/year which is more than some jobs. He also does a music workshop for the local council for the teenagers and get £45 an hour for that. He also has some tracks out that im not sure make him any money but maybe a little.
Please dont piss on peoples fires you can make a living from music/edm and you dont have to be huge either you just have to have the balls to keep going when others dont. |
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| Sonic_c |
Oh and I am under no illusions that it is easy BTW. Probably 99% fail but thats through giving up I think obviously if you have 0 talent then thats another reason.
Those pics dont demonstrate people that only go to one festival and dont listen to trance. They represent 10's of thousands flocking from all over the world to be mesmorised by trance. People that have saved a lot of money to go to them. |
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| Kismet7 |
This might blow some minds, but I was just talking to someone last night, she actually knows Sharam and Ali (DEEP DISH) decently well, I don't want to drop names on who she is because I respect her, and I dont want any of this misused, but she said Sharam made about $1 Million off Sharam - PATT alone. Honestly I did not believe her, but something tells me she cant be far off. The song was pretty much the biggest track of 2006 and well into 2007, and virtually played by everyone and heard by everyone, whether at a club or on a myspace or on youtube or on a radio station. We had a lil discussion about Deep Dish, and I was wondering about why they split up, and then we went onto discussing the different directions they have taken, and thats how "PATT" sales came up. Last year or so there was a bootleg release labeled as Deep Dish track that is said to have sold 30,000 copies according to Sharam himself. The guys who made the bootleg and the label likely made mint off it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H4_oM0Lom8 , about 3:40 into this interview with Sharam, the sound is messed, it wasnt the first time I saw it a while back.
So there is money in EDM, it depends on how artists build themselves, through music and image and whatever else it takes to be successful. Also it depends on what labels you align yourselves with, if your aligning with ty labels that have no clue on how to get the music into the hands of DJs, Promoters, Listeners, outside of passing it off to some .mp3 housing site, then yah your sales are going to be poor. Your music has to reach people. Because people ARE buying music, they are consuming music, the clubs are packing and the festivals are going off. Money is flowing very healthily throughout the EDM industry, And many are living off this music, whether through sales or DJn. Sure a majority are not, but that is true of any genreo f music. And for EDM it is mostly a function that is created by the ease of entrance into the music, but it does not mean there is no money to be made if the music is good and it is reaching people. There is a still a % that is doing well. And whose to say that things wont change in the next 10 years? We are probably at the lows of the lows, and still EDM thrives. What if there is a music industry changing shift, like there has been in the past 10 years, but this time allows a broader amount of EDM artists to be financially successful. And then I can go on to the impact of EDM onto big label mainstream Pop music and Hip Hop music. You know what the outcome of this will be right? More people easily assimilating to EDM music once they get a taste of it.
I'd recommend to my fellow TAs to spend a bit more time on your craft, and then try to sign to labels that will do a great job to get your music to the right people, even if there isnt much money in it at first. I think that should be the paramount goal, otherwise it is very easy that your music will just get lost in the shuffle, not because the industry is teh sucks, but because there is a lot of music out there. And not all of it can reach the proper channels to be successful, its mostly the good music, but if you want a better chance of success, make sure you sign to quality labels and get your music to DJs that can get your music to the people. |
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| Sonic_c |
| I turned a Label down for that reason they only had 148 myspace friends and a poor website. Now im building a database of demo submission emails and dj track submit links etc so when I am 100% on a track its gettin out there. Its also why im doin the course. Most of my teachers dj or perform etc at weekends my production teacher got nominated for best live act at drum and bass awards next to pendulum. It helps being around these guys seeing them "make it happen" annoys me when people say its dead. |
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