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amerikkka (pg. 3)
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| lenazi |
what are they fighting for nou?
to say that it is just a job is fallacy. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by lenazi
There has been zero 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (for emphasis) terrorist attacks on our soil. Why? I don't know...but my guess is that we are only "peace keepers" and generally do not fight if the cause is not just or that if our gov makes promises that they must keep. |
ISAF (Internation Security Assistance Force) is the operational force in Afghanistan, it consists of the US and Canada as well as a number of other nations.
A majority of nations in ISAF are NATO. The attacks on 9/11 caused an invocation of the collective defense articles in the NATO alliance treaties. An attack on one member is an attack on all members, and thus requires all members to provide for the defense of the alliance as if it were defending its own country.
This gets into a HUGE debate about the use of NATO outside of the Atlantic/European theatre and its larger role as peacekeeping force.
I am in the more conservative camp in terms of NATOs mission. I believe its sole goal and mission is to provide for a common defense against Russia and its allied forces and any other Euro-centric military threat. I do not even agree that it should have been used as a peacekeeping force in Bosnia. These are missions that the UN should have handled under its charters and not something NATO should spend its time concerned with. Granted this is all word play as NATO members are inherently members of the UN and would be more than likely the same forces used in Bosnia. The fact remains that these forces operate under NATO regulations with out the oversight of a wider international body.
This is getting away from the point though. Like it or lump it, when Canada signed on to NATO they were probably not expecting this, but it was evoked and used and they are bound by treaty to oblige and I can say as a US American that I extend nothing but gratitude to Canadian Forces operating in all theatres. You are a credit to a professional and well trained military all over the world. |
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| Zild |
| Jay eat a mothering dick you insensitive prick! |
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| lenazi |
dude, i served my country with a blue helmet from 1998 to 2000 in the ex republic of Yugoslavia. That being said, they wanted us there, they wanted people to see them as a democratic state (all factions involved) and they wanted to just move ahead. Both my sisters went to Zagreb together and told me it was the best part of their euro trip (i know how beautiful zagreb is ;) )
Afganistan is not the same. So what if they want to cultivate poppies. So what if they want to fight a nation that is NOT MINE. At the end of the day, the obligations should not be solely political, but they should be voluntary as an actual problem that involves said country.
I know that you will say that military is not an obligation and it is not. When i signed my papers no one put a gun to my head. That being said i did for a country that wanted my help. Fighting lost wars are better left for Vietnam.
I come from Quebec, and although my lost brother was born in Ontario, he was from HERE. We want to live in peace and help those that need help, not those who do not want it. I also lost a friend in the somali conflict, and he did it protecting TEACHERS to HELP the population go further, which is an honorable cause.
My friend in Afganistan died because the Americans told us to help combat the heroin trade. Does that really matter?
| quote: | | In Flanders Fields By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918) Canadian Army In Flanders Fields the poppies blow Between the crosses row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved and were loved, and now we lie In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields. |
i hope i am making some sense, i'm drunk and i am pretty pissed. |
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| lenazi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Jay eat a mothering dick you insensitive prick! |
eat a vegetarian taco. |
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| Zild |
| I don't agree with the wars Jay, but still I tried to join up to serve my country. I've lost more friends than you have, but you don't see me complaining. I may still join the army to serve after I graduate at the end of this school year. We all know/knew what we were getting into and should and as thus the actions should not be disrespected in such a manner. I am truly sorry for your loss, but I cannot agree with your statements. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by lenazi
dude, i served my country with a blue helmet from 1998 to 2000 in the ex republic of Yugoslavia. That being said, they wanted us there, they wanted people to see them as a democratic state (all factions involved) and they wanted to just move ahead. Both my sisters went to Zagreb together and told me it was the best part of their euro trip (i know how beautiful zagreb is ;) )
Afganistan is not the same. So what if they want to cultivate poppies. So what if they want to fight a nation that is NOT MINE. At the end of the day, the obligations should not be solely political, but they should be voluntary as an actual problem that involves said country.
I know that you will say that military is not an obligation and it is not. When i signed my papers no one put a gun to my head. That being said i did for a country that wanted my help. Fighting lost wars are better left for Vietnam.
I come from Quebec, and although my lost brother was born in Ontario, he was from HERE. We want to live in peace and help those that need help, not those who do not want it. I also lost a friend in the somali conflict, and he did it protecting TEACHERS to HELP the population go further, which is an honorable cause.
My friend in Afganistan died because the Americans told us to help combat the heroin trade. Does that really matter?
i hope i am making some sense, i'm drunk and i am pretty pissed. |
I'm pretty sure they don't give too much of a about the poppies... It is a problem, but I am pretty sure most of the reason we are all over there is to not let al-Queda back in and use Afghanistan as a training ground.
This is of course fruitless because they all just moved over to Pakistan and are doing it in the tribal regions on the Afghan border. What Afghanistan is now is what it has been for the last 200 years, a lawless, civil-war prone country who has a shiftless and powerless central state for a while until another group comes in and kills everyone and shoes them out of office.
You can educate the people, but they will continue to live as they have lived for the last 1000 years, warring each other for power, for quite some time.
Combating Islamic fundamentalist and extremists can only happen if you appease the root cause of the conflicts, which are disparities with the West in terms of economic and wealth potential, and to let them lead in their own countries. If the west pulled out of the middle east and let them handle their business on their own they would lose interest in blaming the western devils for their troubles and focus inwards again.
Also ignore Israel, them, they have a powerful enough military with enough nuclear weapons to fight off pretty much anyone around them, and their domestic fighting ability is now on par with that of places like the US and the UK. |
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| lenazi |
no offense zild but until you serve you might not understand how much that you might not believe in what you might possibly die for.
i am not belittling you at all here, i am just saying that think what you want before you sign those papers:) |
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| Zild |
| That is exactly it. I don't want to get a PhD in Chemistry. I want to kill and follow mindless orders. If I die so be it. |
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| lenazi |
| nou, how many time has al queida attacked canada? |
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| Zild |
| quote: | Originally posted by lenazi
nou, how many time has al queida attacked canada? |
yeok so don't support US and we'll rollover on you faster than you can blink an eye. Hello 51st state! |
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| lenazi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
That is exactly it. I don't want to get a PhD in Chemistry. I want to kill and follow mindless orders. If I die so be it. |
that is silly.
if you die, die for something you believe in. had i died in the ex yugo (not bloody likely) at least i believed in the population that was desperately trying to be again.
i did too;)
free school maybe, but at the end of the day you fight for a cause, not because you have no choice.;) |
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