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Japan Sure Enjoys Dolphin Meat (pg. 3)
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| Adam420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
and handicapped
and disabled
and jews?
oh wait thats eugenics |
Or arabs? |
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| Adam420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Are you sure i am retarded?
A) dolphin's are being killed for meat
B) cows are being killed for meat
If you look at these dolphins alot of them are listed as least concern. (conservation status)
I am playing devil's advocate here but clearly it seems you are nit picking between mammals.
This is analogous to eugenics in a way. |
No I'm not. It's really simple, IDK why you don't get it. When we kill a cow, it's OK by me, because we just breed another one.
With dolphins, when one dies, we have no way to determine if another will be born in its place. It's the same with many seaborne creatures.
It's not a matter of being ok or not ok with animal slaughter in general. It's a question of sustainability, and also respect for nature and the environment. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
It's not a matter of being ok or not ok with animal slaughter in general. It's a question of sustainability, and also respect for nature and the environment. |
wow thats very pompus of you to determine that. Did you see how i mentioned that most of the dolphins were listed as "lease concern in the conservation status?"
How are we respecting nature if we are essentially domesticating animals for controlled slaughter?
Watch a video of a kosher cow being killed (look on youtube) and tell me how its any different.
If anything cows are more closely related to humans on a divergence scale lol. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
Or arabs? |
yes why not. (clearly i was making reference to hitler's ideologies). |
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| Adam420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
wow thats very pompus of you to determine that. Did you see how i mentioned that most of the dolphins were listed as "lease concern in the conservation status?"
How are we respecting nature if we are essentially domesticating animals for controlled slaughter?
Watch a video of a kosher cow being killed (look on youtube) and tell me how its any different.
If anything cows are more closely related to humans on a divergence scale lol. |
There are various ways to look at this. Yes slaughter in general is cruel but that is not the point I am contesting. Perhaps you look at this issue and see slaughter of animals in general as the problem, and if that's the case, clearly we're not on the same page.
As disgusting as the slaughter of animals is, it has been going on for thousands of years and is only going to continue. But don't you think it's at least better if we only slaughtered animals whose population we can actually control?
But I really think we're barking up a different tree here. |
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| Comrade Stalin |
| I judge all this by whether the animal is aware of its immanent death. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
There are various ways to look at this. Yes slaughter in general is cruel but that is not the point I am contesting. Perhaps you look at this issue and see slaughter of animals in general as the problem, and if that's the case, clearly we're not on the same page.
As disgusting as the slaughter of animals is, it has been going on for thousands of years and is only going to continue. But don't you think it's at least better if we only slaughtered animals whose population we can actually control?
But I really think we're barking up a different tree here. |
we can control the population of dolphins though. Right now most of them are listed as least concern (not threatened or endangered) This would be the equivalent of squirells. The method they are using in killing is rather archaeic and if they do want to turn this into a somewhat humane industry it should be managed better. (similar to the way they harvest salmon but lead cows in major plants etc.
I hate to hear the argument though that these animals are more intelligent thus they should be conserved where as the other animals are domestic and should be eaten. Domestic animals are simply wild animals that have been slectively bread. Their intelligence isnt reduced, their brains are the same and so forth.
Animals are intelligent with respect to the environment in which they live. A dolphin is intelligent since it can utilize echolocation navigate teh sea's as well as communicate with eachother. Bats are similar yet use echolocation to a higher degree of precision in hunting insects.
Cows (domestic oxen) have their own degree of intelligence that deals with herd mentality, migration and predator evasion. |
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| Comrade Stalin |
| Slaughtering dolphins is no different than killing whales or elephants. It just shouldn't be done whether they are endangered or not. |
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| Danny Ocean |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
we can control the population of dolphins though. Right now most of them are listed as least concern (not threatened or endangered) This would be the equivalent of squirells. The method they are using in killing is rather archaeic and if they do want to turn this into a somewhat humane industry it should be managed better. (similar to the way they harvest salmon but lead cows in major plants etc.
I hate to hear the argument though that these animals are more intelligent thus they should be conserved where as the other animals are domestic and should be eaten. Domestic animals are simply wild animals that have been slectively bread. Their intelligence isnt reduced, their brains are the same and so forth.
Animals are intelligent with respect to the environment in which they live. A dolphin is intelligent since it can utilize echolocation navigate teh sea's as well as communicate with eachother. Bats are similar yet use echolocation to a higher degree of precision in hunting insects.
Cows (domestic oxen) have their own degree of intelligence that deals with herd mentality, migration and predator evasion. |
you don't seem to grasp that dolphins and related mammals do not need to be a part of a diet in order to survive, and they should not...especially by the thousands. It's like supporting the use of chinchilla fur for clothing now days. It's poaching and it should be illegal. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Danny Ocean
you don't seem to grasp that dolphins and related mammals do not need to be a part of a diet in order to survive, and they should not...especially by the thousands. It's like supporting the use of chinchilla fur for clothing now days. It's poaching and it should be illegal. |
I think that's a very dodgy argument. Many meats don't "NEED" to be part of the diet to survive. In fact I know a lot of vegetarians and even vegans that seem to survive just fine. Japan might run the same argument about europeans eating lamb (which isn't a major part of their food culture), or Australians eating kangaroo meat.
I have no problem with fur either.. if you've ever been to a truly cold country where it drops below -30C you'll know nothing is quite as good as natural fur.. it breathes and keeps you warm at the same time.
I think cruelty to animals (both in terms of captivity conditions and slaughter methods) needs to be minimised and we need to ensure any animals we use are not hunted to extinction. Beyond that any arguments about unnecessary killing of animals that don't happen to be a part of your food culture are hypocritical. |
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| Danny Ocean |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
I think that's a very dodgy argument. Many meats don't "NEED" to be part of the diet to survive. In fact I know a lot of vegetarians and even vegans that seem to survive just fine. Japan might run the same argument about europeans eating lamb (which isn't a major part of their food culture), or Australians eating kangaroo meat.
I have no problem with fur either.. if you've ever been to a truly cold country where it drops below -30C you'll know nothing is quite as good as natural fur.. it breathes and keeps you warm at the same time.
I think cruelty to animals (both in terms of captivity conditions and slaughter methods) needs to be minimised and we need to ensure any animals we use are not hunted to extinction. Beyond that any arguments about unnecessary killing of animals that don't happen to be a part of your food culture are hypocritical. |
i was specifying the dolphin specie as a meat that is not needed, and highly full on toxins which can be extremely harmful due to the high levels of mercury in the meat, which i previously stated, making the massacres of these animals completely unnecessary, it has nothing to do with food culture, just basic logic. Lamb and Kangoroo ( which i'm sure is very abundant in AU) are well controlled species as well, and they are not being exploited in this inhumane manner.Im sure lambs and kangoroos are being raised as well for the use of their meat and skin, i don't see anyone breeding dolphins or whales for food.
Also seen what the procedure that is done to the animals in order to get the fur that will keep you warm in countries with that temperature? I know it is good quality material for the use coats and they look great, but that is not the point. I am positive you can find material that is not fur to help you endure harsh conditions in the cold. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Danny Ocean
i was specifying the dolphin specie as a meat that is not needed, and highly full on toxins which can be extremely harmful due to the high levels of mercury in the meat, which i previously stated, making the massacres of these animals completely unnecessary, it has nothing to do with food culture, just basic logic. Lamb and Kangoroo ( which i'm sure is very abundant in AU) are well controlled species as well, and they are not being exploited in this inhumane manner.Im sure lambs and kangoroos are being raised as well for the use of their meat and skin, i don't see anyone breeding dolphins or whales for food. |
With regards to Kangaroos, wild populations are rounded up and shot humanely. The populations of various roo species are pretty well known so there is no danger of endangering the species. The mercury problem is also a universal one with many wild fish these days... an argument not to pollute the water if anything. Again necessity is no argument for me. If we only decided which animals to kill based on which particular meat is "needed" we would be stuck with one variety of meat, if any at all. As long as there is no cruelty and the species is not in danger of extinction I have no issue.
| quote: | | Also seen what the procedure that is done to the animals in order to get the fur that will keep you warm in countries with that temperature? I know it is good quality material for the use coats and they look great, but that is not the point. I am positive you can find material that is not fur to help you endure harsh conditions in the cold. |
I have seen footage of skin being torn off live animals which IMO is unnecessary and as far as I know not the standard procedure. If this was the only way to do it I'd be against it.
Other than cruelty and environmental concerns I simply have no moral qualms with killing animals. Synthetic fur exists, just like synthetic leather exists but neither are as good as the originals. As long as the originals can be procured without endangering a species or ecosystem and without being cruel then I have no issues with using them - the fact that it's a luxury rather than a necessity doesn't sway me really. |
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