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EDM form (pg. 4)
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
i don't think it's lack of skill or laziness or anything like that, a lot of these producers use to make the records you guys are after but from their own experiences have changed their arrangements. i guess you guys have found a niche in today's music though, obviously being 3 pages in on this thread says there's some kind of market for the epicness to continue. |
I was thinking about it earlier, today - about the Hardstyle thread in the Music Discussion Forum. That sucks mega-donkey-balls.
Not to take issue with you but, I don't buy that any of the producers I heard in that thread give a about the musicality of what they're producing. It is cheap, disposable, and completely forgettable, apart from the distinct sense of irritation I harbor at this writing. It's not just music found in that thread, either.
The ing scene has been taken over with carpet-baggers, fraudsters, narcissists, and corporations who have all somehow managed to turn the rotting chum on Beatport into the glue that holds together mass-appeal and the acceptable-level-of-mediocrity. Hunter S. Thompson could not have been more right when he said, "The music business is a creul and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
I know this - have seen it, been there, done that, all of it. But I will be damned if I sacrifice quality in order to make a buck. It's not because it's wrong, amoral, or even indecent to put out bad music. It's merely because it is boring. |
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| Zombie0729 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
I was thinking about it earlier, today - about the Hardstyle thread in the Music Discussion Forum. That sucks mega-donkey-balls.
Not to take issue with you but, I don't buy that any of the producers I heard in that thread give a about the musicality of what they're producing. It is cheap, disposable, and completely forgettable, apart from the distinct sense of irritation I harbor at this writing. It's not just music found in that thread, either.
The ing scene has been taken over with carpet-baggers, fraudsters, narcissists, and corporations who have all somehow managed to turn the rotting chum on Beatport into the glue that holds together mass-appeal and the acceptable-level-of-mediocrity. Hunter S. Thompson could not have been more right when he said, "The music business is a creul and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."
I know this - have seen it, been there, done that, all of it. But I will be damned if I sacrifice quality in order to make a buck. It's not because it's wrong, amoral, or even indecent to put out bad music. It's merely because it is boring. |
i haven't a clue to what you're referring to. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
i haven't a clue to what you're referring to. |
That explains quite a bit, actually.
Thanks for clearing that up. ;) |
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| Zombie0729 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
That explains quite a bit, actually.
Thanks for clearing that up. ;) |
sorry it read's as ramble and i can't figure out what connection you're making from a hardcore thread to this thread, furthermore to hunter s. tompson and lastly to "corporations". outline your thoughts so i can see the light |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
sorry it read's as ramble and i can't figure out what connection you're making from a hardcore thread to this thread, furthermore to hunter s. tompson and lastly to "corporations". outline your thoughts so i can see the light |
Gotcha.
I'll submit that the OP isn't just talking about form (e.g. Epic, Anthem, Sooper Mega Break OMG LAZERS!!!) but is speaking to the over-all musicality of the EDM scene. Generally speaking my opinion is that the EDM scene has been retarded to its pre 1993 condition. The quality of music along with musicianship has suffered for BOTH producers and DJ's. I realize that this is because the market finds it acceptable but I do not find it acceptable to produce that sort of music. I will therefore, not, regardless of prevailing market conditions.
What's more is that I don't find the rationalization that a lot of producers who have the capacity and desire to put out better music became discouraged from doing so after having experience and, therefore, had to change their arrangements. I do agree that they may have made sacrifices to accommodate what was possible.
I will try and find more time to elaborate tomorrow as I really must go. |
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| Zombie0729 |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Gotcha.
I'll submit that the OP isn't just talking about form (e.g. Epic, Anthem, Sooper Mega Break OMG LAZERS!!!) but is speaking to the over-all musicality of the EDM scene. Generally speaking my opinion is that the EDM scene has been retarded to its pre 1993 condition. The quality of music along with musicianship has suffered for BOTH producers and DJ's. I realize that this is because the market finds it acceptable but I do not find it acceptable to produce that sort of music. I will therefore, not, regardless of prevailing market conditions.
What's more is that I don't find the rationalization that a lot of producers who have the capacity and desire to put out better music became discouraged from doing so after having experience and, therefore, had to change their arrangements. I do agree that they may have made sacrifices to accommodate what was possible.
I will try and find more time to elaborate tomorrow as I really must go. |
cool that makes sense and i understand what you're saying. I think song writing in dance music is really diverse, some of my favorite 'pop' type records are in the nu disco scene, i mean the chords, melodies etc are in so memorable. on the other hand some of my favorite club records don't have huge hooks, they just have a lot of groove and that's enough for some. A perfect example that explains where i'm coming from is based on one of my favorite records of last year. The track is musically, pretty complex and the arrangement isn't overly busy but i never get sick of it. Now i play that record nearly every time i DJ and it translates (on a Dynachord sound system) pretty well. When i first played that record i thought it would be the peak of my musical night, the reality is far simpler records translated way better and i get way more crowd response out of other records that i didn't think were nearly as "big". there's some disconnect that i don't know how to verbalize but i really do understand from a "club-friendly" type record why producers make certain decisions. i can't speak on the records you guys are talking about, i can just say that, for me, the epic builds and the stripped down drops aren't a cop-out. ok i'm done. |
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| kitphillips |
Theres a place for songs that use fairly minimal breakdowns, you don't need a reach for the lazors moment in every song. It works better if you build a lot of tension using tracks which either have no breakdown or minimal breakdowns and then move on to using more anthemic stuff with more melodic breakdowns.
PS
tl;dr |
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| Kysora |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Gotcha.
I'll submit that the OP isn't just talking about form (e.g. Epic, Anthem, Sooper Mega Break OMG LAZERS!!!) |
lmao what
the kind of music you're apparently mocking is modern uplifting trance, which virtually never has the minimal drops richie was talking about
you just seem like you're on a tirade about how trance "isn't what it used to be" when the fact of the matter is that there is plenty of good music being put out by modern musicians. there's probably more ty music than good but there's no reason to make the entire scene sound like it's turning to because of it. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Gotcha.
I'll submit that the OP isn't just talking about form (e.g. Epic, Anthem, Sooper Mega Break OMG LAZERS!!!) but is speaking to the over-all musicality of the EDM scene. Generally speaking my opinion is that the EDM scene has been retarded to its pre 1993 condition. The quality of music along with musicianship has suffered for BOTH producers and DJ's. I realize that this is because the market finds it acceptable but I do not find it acceptable to produce that sort of music. I will therefore, not, regardless of prevailing market conditions.
What's more is that I don't find the rationalization that a lot of producers who have the capacity and desire to put out better music became discouraged from doing so after having experience and, therefore, had to change their arrangements. I do agree that they may have made sacrifices to accommodate what was possible.
I will try and find more time to elaborate tomorrow as I really must go. |
You were doing so well until you said "retarded to it's pre 1993 condition". I ing wish music was back there either in terms of musicality or originality, even with the technical limitations of those days.
But I do completely agree with your other sentiments. |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
dont see the problem here, if you dont like these kinds of tracks then
a) dont listen to them
b) dont go to see DJs who play them |
Yes, that's all very well and good but this kind of track is very much the trend right now that many DJs will play across the board so whatever club night I go to, I will hear too many of these kind of tracks and find it frustrating.
Sure I don't have to listen at home so no problem there ;) |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
Yes, that's all very well and good but this kind of track is very much the trend right now that many DJs will play across the board so whatever club night I go to, I will hear too many of these kind of tracks and find it frustrating.
Sure I don't have to listen at home so no problem there ;) |
Yeah its frustating if you dont like it, i agree - however trends come and go, im sure this one will be no different..... |
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| Kthought |
everything has its place, yeah?
a couple "blue ball drops" (lawl) well programmed into a set that turns uplifting and momentous in time should provide the contrast that a good set must have.
Arnej's live set @ asot 400 (Day 1 Wuppertal) had a great mix of blue ball drops, and momentous drops (sometimes both in the same track). This is one of my favorite sets in the last couple years... also because his set has a signature all its own.
From a producers standpoint, the thought of not having a gigantic crescendo break ejaculating a melody over 4 hats, saddens me. Maybe if im in the "business" I could see riding the minimal trend, but til then, mostly big breaks for me. |
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