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Video: Police use excessive brutal force in Victoria's entertainment district (pg. 4)
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~*
IMO it doesn't really matter what happened before hand. Whether he was being mouthy or whatever, at that point in time he was being compliant and doing exactly what he was told (i.e. getting down on the ground and putting his hands behind his back). As you said, the kicks definitely weren't necessary. In fact, the guy sat down on his own and it doesn't appear necessary that the cop in black needed to push him down. |
but you could not hear what the guy was saying when he was getting down on the ground. I'm not saying the officer was right in what he did but that video doesn't really tell the whole story. Who knows maybe the guy was telling the officer to kick him...highly unlikely but do any of us know for sure. |
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| WittyHandle |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
Knowing your rights and standing firm to a police officer can come off as being an ass to the cop. My thought has always been if I don't have anything to hide then why not just co-operate and be polite. If a cop asked for my ID when I was walking down the street I would just give it to them instead of playing the "I know my rights" card. That's just going to get you in trouble. |
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| Jayx1 |
i suspect that the people willing to give cops carte blanche have never been witness to, or subjected to abusive police.
I think their tune would change if they had.
As i said, that video is mild compared to what ive witnessed.
let me use the "nothing to hide" arguement in reverse.
if the police have nothing to hide and are confident that they are in the right, then why do they order people to stop filming, or confiscate and delete memory from, or smash people's cameras/camera phones? Last i checked, filming in public was not against the law.
hmmmmmm |
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| love_child |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
if thats the case then they can say "we are doing an investigation and we need you to help us out". Obviously thats not what they were doing when they surrounded me barking "DO YOU HAVE A PERMIT?". And if they are seeking your help in an investigation, you are doing them a favour by helping them. So instead of being overbearing and intimidating, they can take some time out to ask you for your help. I have been approached like that before and I have helped out. Hence why i was witness to the crown twice for two very legitimate incidents.
These are very different situations i am describing here.
aaahh the old "if you have nothing to hide why do u care?" argument. Thats all fine and dandy until the state decides that you have something to hide. Just working in the entertainment district has become a psuedocrime now. You are assuming that we can trust the state, police and entities as if they are infallible, incorruptable, flawless entities. They are not. Luckily we still have the charter that somewhat defends us from abuse. Not like when my cuban friends were stopped by the cops. Because there you answer the questions and hope u dont get taken away. We arent cuba.... yet.
no... imo know your rights. And if the cops have a legitimate reason to ask you questions, they have a duty to inform you of that fact. Otherwise its just intimidation. |
I think whats going on here is that we are just analyzing the same situation differently. Where I see a police officer asking me for my ID no big deal and you see it as overbearing and intimidating. Like I said before I have never had any issues as long as I co-operated with the police. I know my rights but I have absolutely no reason to express them in these specific sitations as it isnt necessary and is a waste of the officers and what is infinitely more important, my time.
I never said that all police are good cops but just like everything else you will always have bad apples in the bunch. I know that their are many great cops out there. The scenarios you described to me have scued the way you view law enforcement and you now label all of law enforcement as s. |
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| *~LiSa-LoO~* |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
but you could not hear what the guy was saying when he was getting down on the ground. I'm not saying the officer was right in what he did but that video doesn't really tell the whole story. Who knows maybe the guy was telling the officer to kick him...highly unlikely but do any of us know for sure. |
That's true, but you said yourself, highly unlikely. |
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| *~LiSa-LoO~* |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
windsor is even worse than toronto for police abuse. |
I don't really notice it, but then again I also don't go to the bars that are located on the stripe where a lot of underagers, americans and drunken fools cause . The north side of the strip is where it's at! lol |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by love_child
I think whats going on here is that we are just analyzing the same situation differently. Where I see a police officer asking me for my ID no big deal and you see it as overbearing and intimidating. Like I said before I have never had any issues as long as I co-operated with the police. I know my rights but I have absolutely no reason to express them in these specific sitations as it isnt necessary and is a waste of the officers and what is infinitely more important, my time.
I never said that all police are good cops but just like everything else you will always have bad apples in the bunch. I know that their are many great cops out there. The scenarios you described to me have scued the way you view law enforcement and you now label all of law enforcement as s. |
do you ever walk home 3 times a week through the entertainment district?
when they ask you for ID they arent exactly nice about it. It is intimidating when a group of bike cops surround you and start yelling at you at 3 am when you are walking down the street. A few times they even asked to search me without cause and i refused.
For the record, all i ever do at 3 am is try to get to my car and im 100% sober.
They do it counting on people to not know their rights. They want to shakedown the general populace in hopes that they will find someone violating probation etc etc. Its the kind of shakedown policing used in totalitarian societies. Except here IF YOU KNOW YOUR RIGHTS you have the ability to legally decline.
Its all about the approach. If these cops werent so brutish and had a reason to ask for my ID, they would actually get more cooperation from me. But unfortunately its the intimidation that more times than not, scares people into complying and they know it.
And thats nothing more than bullying and i refuse to comply to that. |
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| love_child |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
i suspect that the people willing to give cops carte blanche have never been witness to, or subjected to abusive police.
I think their tune would change if they had.
As i said, that video is mild compared to what ive witnessed.
let me use the "nothing to hide" arguement in reverse.
if the police have nothing to hide and are confident that they are in the right, then why do they order people to stop filming, or confiscate and delete memory from, or smash people's cameras/camera phones? Last i checked, filming in public was not against the law.
hmmmmmm |
Your suspicion is incorrect. I have witnessed cops beating/using extensive force but it was because the witness was fighting and/or refusing to obey the officers commands after repeated attemps by the officer mind you to diffuse the situation without any violence. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by love_child
Your suspicion is incorrect. I have witnessed cops beating/using extensive force but it was because the witness was fighting and/or refusing to obey the officers commands after repeated attemps by the officer mind you to diffuse the situation without any violence. |
There are a few times when the guy deserves it but even then they should only get the force that is required to subdue.
Again, more often than not the police actually ESCALATE the violence or sometimes even provoke it!
ive thought about filming it many times but i know what happens to cameras and mine cost me $400! :whip: :whip: |
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| love_child |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
do you ever walk home 3 times a week through the entertainment district?
when they ask you for ID they arent exactly nice about it. It is intimidating when a group of bike cops surround you and start yelling at you at 3 am when you are walking down the street. A few times they even asked to search me without cause and i refused.
For the record, all i ever do at 3 am is try to get to my car and im 100% sober.
They do it counting on people to not know their rights. They want to shakedown the general populace in hopes that they will find someone violating probation etc etc. Its the kind of shakedown policing used in totalitarian societies. Except here IF YOU KNOW YOUR RIGHTS you have the ability to legally decline.
Its all about the approach. If these cops werent so brutish and had a reason to ask for my ID, they would actually get more cooperation from me. But unfortunately its the intimidation that more times than not, scares people into complying and they know it.
And thats nothing more than bullying and i refuse to comply to that.
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Thats fine...see how far that gets you with that attitude. If you find a police officer asking you for ID intimidating then I cant help you with that. I personally have no reason to decline handing over my ID...in fact I would gladly do so.
Also...let me get this straight. A group of bike cops surrounded you and started yelling at you for no reason? Sounds strange to me if its true. |
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| Jayx1 |
| BTW did you know that the TAVIS squad goes through nightclub parking lots and underground lots with cameras, recording license plates? Isnt that lovely? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by love_child
Thats fine...see how far that gets you with that attitude. If you find a police officer asking you for ID intimidating then I cant help you with that. I personally have no reason to decline handing over my ID...in fact I would gladly do so.
Also...let me get this straight. A group of bike cops surrounded you and started yelling at your for no reason? Sounds strange to me if its true. |
it does sound strange is a free country. and thats my whole point! and its happened many times, not just once.
you really dont know the half of it...
and in a free society, refusing to identify yourself if not under arrest shouldnt get you anything. |
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