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I agree with Jayx1! (pg. 4)
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| cammaxwell |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
meat we do consume at home comes from local, pasture-raised animals |
Now what about the argument that this way of producing organic meat is actually more harmful to the environment? In the fact that it takes much more land, more resources, to produce smaller quantities over a longer period of time?
I've heard people argue that if all of our food was produced organically that the world would starve because we couldn't produce enough food. |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by cammaxwell
I've heard people argue that if all of our food was produced organically that the world would starve because we could produce enough food. |
yup.
organic production on a mass scale is not sustainable for the worlds current population, 2 billion people would starve...
Truth be told, organic food has almost no benefit to humanity at all. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
Nope, just limit my meat intake and the meat we do consume at home comes from local, pasture-raised animals. Means we have to give up other conveniences as our food costs are a bit higher as a result, but it's a fair trade-off, imho. |
aaaaaaah so now invoke the wrath of the environmental vegan who would lambaste you as a meat eater the same way as you lambaste car drivers.
But of course you would argue that it is your choice to eat meat even though you dont absolutely depend on meat and can find "other alternatives"
Now imagine these environmentalist vegans were now succesful in passing laws saying that you cant eat any meat because it , how did u put it? ahh yess.. | quote: | | Originally posted by PivotTechno contribute to the degradation of the planet by both the industry that they fuel and their own selfish habits. |
environmental vegans would say| quote: | | Originally posted by PivotTechno they need to be conscious of the impact that decision has on both themselves and the environment that surrounds them. |
and that disallowing meat when alternatives are present would be | quote: | | Originally posted by PivotTechno responsible regulation for the win. |
To paraphrase you, vegan environmentalists might say that If you really know what's best for your life (and the lives of those around you), you'll limit the use of meat, finding healthier, alternate means to eat.
In summary. Do not impose your way of life on others unless you are prepared to have the same done to you. |
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| PivotTechno |
| quote: | Originally posted by cammaxwell
Now what about the argument that this way of producing organic meat is actually more harmful to the environment? In the fact that it takes much more land, more resources, to produce smaller quantities over a longer period of time?
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Wouldn't be an issue if people shed the mentality that meat needs to be included with nearly every meal consumed.
| quote: | Originally posted by cammaxwell
I've heard people argue that if all of our food was produced organically that the world would starve because we could produce enough food. |
Yet our current means of production are contributing to mass soil degradation and environmental contamination, which is leading us down exactly the same road. Seems like we can either take the hard road now, or the very hard one at some indeterminate point, which if most environmental reports are any indication, isn't all that far down the line. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
Wouldn't be an issue if people shed the mentality that meat needs to be included with nearly every meal consumed.
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aaaaah but the environmentalist vegan would argue that NO meat EVER needs to be consumed and therefor should be banned. That you can make other choices like he has just like how you explained to me that by moving downtown and starting a home business, you can avoid using a car.
| quote: | | Yet our current means of production are contributing to mass soil degradation and environmental contamination, which is leading us down exactly the same road. Seems like we can either take the hard road now, or the very hard one at some indeterminate point, which if most environmental reports are any indication, isn't all that far down the line. |
Seems like you are well informed yet continue to make the choice to eat meat. Similar to the judgement i make when choosing which mode of transport to use.
Very interesting |
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| PivotTechno |
| There is a middle setting somewhere between the black and white lenses through which you seem to view the world. My "get your car off the road" analogy was ridiculous with the intent to provoke, but strange that my subsequent suggestion that you "limit the use of your vehicle, finding healthier, alternate means to get around when it's not in use", didn't seem to garner much in the way of response. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
There is a middle setting somewhere between the black and white lenses through which you seem to view the world. My "get your car off the road" analogy was ridiculous with the intent to provoke, but strange that my subsequent suggestion that you "limit the use of your vehicle, finding healthier, alternate means to get around when it's not in use", didn't seem to garner much in the way of response. |
aaaah the good old fashioned back peddle... you MUST be a cyclist! LOL
i agree there is a middle ground to everything. And that middle ground should be decided upon by the individual according to individual situation, needs, and yes even wants! And that this middle ground should not be imposed by the government as a one size fits all solution which is what has become fashionable.
Our debate has clearly shown that we each have different reasonings for why we do what we do. And that for each decision we make, there are reasons that can be argued for and against each one. That is the balance that is life!
So again: Don't impose on others unless you are prepared to have the same done to you! |
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| PivotTechno |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
aaaah the good old fashioned back peddle... you MUST be a cyclist! LOL
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Just as effective as good old-fashioned avoidance!
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
So again: Don't impose on others unless you are prepared to have the same done to you! |
Right back at'cha! |
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| jchung52 |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PivotTechno
Just as effective as good old-fashioned avoidance!
Right back at'cha! |
i dont impose my lifestyle on anyone. You are free to sometimes eat meat and live downtown as far as im concerned |
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| PivotTechno |
| So your libertarianism doesn't include any environmental considerations? Just let the cards fall where they may? |
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| VDub |
I love reading Jay's arguments...
Pivot I appreciate that you and I are on the same page when it comes to music...
On this issue, however, we aren't even in the same book...
But this thread was a pleasure anyway...
Cam... Thanks for that informative chart.. I'd always wondered... |
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