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FAO: Lira - 21 Accents (pg. 6)
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| So we taking bets on how many more pages it takes before he busts out the Troll defense? I'm thinking Lira can make it happen in less than 2. |
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| OurManFlint |
Ok, I think what he is trying to say is that the accent in PNW would not pinpoint us to the PWN, like many in the west coast. For example, if I traveled to Toronto, New York, Florida, Europe, etc., people would probably know I was American, but there would be no distinguishing characteristic in the way I speak that people would say "are you from Seattle?" This would be the case for people from the South, or the East Coast. I would easily be able to tell where they were from, approximately.
The Neutral part of the argument comes from this, because there is no characteristics in the way we speak that would pinpoint our origins. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by OurManFlint
Ok, I think what he is trying to say is that the accent in PNW would not pinpoint us to the PWN, like many in the west coast. For example, if I traveled to Toronto, New York, Florida, Europe, etc., people would probably know I was American, but there would be no distinguishing characteristic in the way I speak that people would say "are you from Seattle?" This would be the case for people from the South, or the East Coast. I would easily be able to tell where they were from, approximately.
The Neutral part of the argument comes from this, because there is no characteristics in the way we speak that would pinpoint our origins. |
Exactly. People never say "are you from seattle" when you speak. We sound very generic. Like national newscast english (which a few are from the PNW). |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Exactly. People never say "are you from seattle" when you speak. |
That's because we can already tell before you open your mouth. You're driving a Prius, wearing khaki shorts, and probably have scraggly facial hair. :p |
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| NeoPhono |
Just my two cents about Seattle...
I'm in Seattle for the month (from the Midwest, the "home" of the General American accent), and although I do agree that most of Seattle is very neutral in terms of pronunciation, there is a bit of Canadian accent thrown in from time to time. This is especially true when "O" sounds are made (mostly long, but some short "Os" as well). I don't think there's any prevalent accent here, but there is a little "flavor" from time to time. |
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| srussell0018 |
| I may not say "hey, are you from Seattle?" but I may say "hey, isn't it hard to talk with a dick in your mouth?" |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Yes, there is, ffs, do you even know what the word means? |
No, there is no such thing as a neutral accent anywhere in the world. If you speak, you do have an accent! This is as preposterous as saying you speak a neutral language and all other languages are deviations from yours, because your language does not have the quirks other languages have!
I've heard Canadians claim their accent is neutral, Midwesterners, and now - here you are - someone from the Pacific Northwest. You should organise committee and decide who's the most neutral of you all. Should be entertaining.
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
It is neutral as it lacks the characteristics seen in regional areas of the US. Where someone in Boston might speak with a Boston accent there are also people that speak with General American, there are people that speak with a hint of Boston, etc. |
And that itself is a characteristic! Besides, there are many linguists that are quick to point the characteristics of the PNW accents.
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
You would use General American as the standard, the median, the baseline, the control subject, whatever you want to call it. All I am trying to say is that the PNW lacks any sort of large regional tweaks, like Chicago accent or North State Accents (think like Minnesota, southern Canadian accents) so that it is the most neutral of all of the areas because they speak General American and it lacks the tweaks found in any of the other regional areas of the US. |
Nou, the lack of these characteristics is itself a characteristic, not a sign of neutrality.
In a nutshell, what I'm trying to tell you is that:
- If you speak, you need to choose how you're going to pronounce the words, and you usually do that in accordance to the linguistic community you're surrounded by;
- If you do something someone else doesn't, that doesn't mean you're neutral, it just means you made another choice - should the other speakers outnumber you, you'd be the one speaking funny compared to the majority;
- For some reason, the linguists that wrote the articles I posted were able to find some tweaks that were restricted to the PNW. How is that neutral?
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Exactly. People never say "are you from seattle" when you speak. We sound very generic. Like national newscast english (which a few are from the PNW). |
By the way, the very same thing happens here in Brasília. You know what that means? That mass immigration is still rather recent here when compared to the rest of the country, not that my accent is in any way neutral compared to the rest of the country. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
Lira you are arguing semantics (about what the term neutral means). You do not know what it means.
It means neither one or the other, or it can mean the baseline on which all others are gauged. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
By the way, the very same thing happens here in Brasília. You know what that means? That mass immigration is still rather recent here when compared to the rest of the country, not that my accent is in any way neutral compared to the rest of the country. |
That is so far off topic. We are talking about native speakers, not immigrants or people that speak it as a second language. FFS. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| You have your ed up intellectual definition that is far detached from actual practice. You have people coming in here and saying essentially the same thing I am about the language. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
That is so far off topic. We are talking about native speakers, not immigrants or people that speak it as a second language. FFS. |
Didn't you say your parents came from the Midwest? This is what I'm getting at - they're not Washingtonians. I'm not talking about foreigners here :conf:
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Lira you are arguing semantics (about what the term neutral means). You do not know what it means.
It means neither one or the other, or it can mean the baseline on which all others are gauged. |
Hence why your accent isn't neutral unless you're mute!
You need to speak one way or the other!
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
You have your ed up intellectual definition that is far detached from actual practice. You have people coming in here and saying essentially the same thing I am about the language. |
Remind me to tell sociolinguists about that. They'll be thrilled to know that some of the most basic premises of their field of study is actually wrong despite the results it's garnered over time, though rather than having a better hypothesis of how different accents and dialects work, we've got to change this definition just so people can feel happy about the way they speak.
Nou, here's the thing: You want me to tell you how special your accent is for not having "the tweaks" other accents have. This is just inaccurate, I've stated you the reasons why it is the case without having to get too much into linguistic theory. However, you don't want to know how accents works, you want me to tell you how awesome the Pacific Northwest is.
Well, if it really means this much to you, fine: your accent is neutral, Seattle should be the capital of the free world and I wish I could listen to Nirvana while sipping coffee in a Starbucks here in my hometown, but alas, I can't. |
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