|
The concept of Form (pg. 3)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| JEO |
| I didn't mean it like that, but go ahead and twist a man's words god damn! |
|
|
| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
Mom (or Mum to those that can spell properly) would be proud. |
lol,
And yeah, good post OP |
|
|
| daeus |
"organicism" is the keyword here for me, I strive to get the most organic sounds in some of my tracks as it can really make a track sound more alive and thats when the magic happens. Try to get as far away from the synthetic sound as possible even though thats where they originating from.
I'm talking organic in the sence of how it sounds, and how a sound evolves. |
|
|
| Mad for Brad |
organicism as I described has nothing to do with how it sounds but rather how it comes about. WHem something is derived from a source motive, you could say that is organic as it comes from the actual composition. It has nothing to do with the actual quality or timbre of the sound.
Just forget about it. There was only one person that actually had a clue as to what I was talking about. It says much about the musical maturity of most here and it is rather frustrating.
Didn't you people study English at school ? Did you not study form ? I would of thought anyone that had taken an intro lit , film or music class would start to see a piece of work no only as something to listen to but also a logical and aesthetic piece of art. |
|
|
| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
organicism as I described has nothing to do with how it sounds but rather how it comes about. WHem something is derived from a source motive, you could say that is organic as it comes from the actual composition. It has nothing to do with the actual quality or timbre of the sound.
Just forget about it. There was only one person that actually had a clue as to what I was talking about. It says much about the musical maturity of most here and it is rather frustrating.
Didn't you people study English at school ? Did you not study form ? I would of thought anyone that had taken an intro lit , film or music class would start to see a piece of work no only as something to listen to but also a logical and aesthetic piece of art. |
Well I know what I thought you meant, but you did waffle a bit and fail to elaborate on a convincing example. Form is a slightly abstract term when talking about non visual media. Let's not also forget that what I consider to be a perfectly constructed sound or image may not be yours.
What I took from your post was that you were trying to explain that music should be an art not a science, and even that descrition I gave doesn't really portray what I thought you meant. |
|
|
| Mad for Brad |
| to give an example would be time consuming. And I don't have 30 minutes at the moment. It is concept and philosophy than any good producer , composer, writer , directer adheres to. People don't just put random things together which I often feel is the case with many here. When i'm online, I am always at work taking a little break or waiting for something to process. I'm never just surfing the web so it isn't easy to break down a track and show how elements are related and how everything has a logical place and purpose. The idea i proposed should be enough. |
|
|
| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
The idea i proposed should be enough. |
For me it's not, because I'm not you, well... for the most part.
If you do find 30 minutes, do enlighten us all because you're probably onto something. |
|
|
| Kenny Rogers |
interesting topic. unfortunately im to tired to read so im just gonna communicate one way. good examples of original form of edm tracks are the prodigy imo. mostly from the jilted generation album. its sort of laid out like a poptrack:
intro, part1, part2, part3, part1, part2, part3, outro.
each of the parts around a 32 bars long leaving a track at 6-8 minutes depending on bpm (125-145) without being boring, repeatative or anything. the most obvious track of this structure is no good start the dance but also their law, which is their two biggest tracks from that album. it seems to work.
i think also this was the way one was meant to work when Logic first came out, and probably also early workstation synth/samplers/sequencers (like yamaha and rolad). This is lost in todays daws, hence the boring structures of todays music. |
|
|
| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
Just forget about it. There was only one person that actually had a clue as to what I was talking about. It says much about the musical maturity of most here and it is rather frustrating.
|
Well, I don't mean any of this to sound condescending, but I don't think you can expect people on a trance forum to follow you, especially without examples. I think it's safe to say that, generally speaking, Trance producers have very little in the way of formal musical training and, of those who do, I'd say the vast majority are primarily performers (i.e., play an instrument) that have had little/no formal instruction in composition, or experience with harmonic and structural analyses of other pieces. Therefore, most of them aren't familiar with the concept of musical form, motifs, development of themes, and variations, etc. Those concepts are typically only learned in theory/composition courses.
Trance producers (again, generally speaking) seem to learn largely by following tutorials, copying others, and taking almost a paint-by-numbers approach. That's evidenced by the template-like arrangements and musical simplicity of nearly all trance tracks. I don't mean that in a condescending or insulting way - that just seems to be the nature of trance. And, if the pioneers in the genre aren't maximizing musical form, the followers, by and large, won't either. So, couple that with the fact that many (most?) trance producers prioritize things like mixing, sound selection, and groove over harmony and melody and you start to see why people aren't getting the point of your thread.
To be honest, I can't think of any trance track off the top of my head that I could use as an example to support your point. Most trance tracks just aren't that musically complex and the ones that are (particularly vocal trance tracks with strong melodies) are deemed cheesy by most serious trance producers. That said, I totally agree with your premise and I think trance tracks would benefit greatly from paying conscious attention to musical form, developing musical motifs, etc. It would bring a much greater level of cohesion to many trance tracks that seem to struggle to go nowhere. |
|
|
| Mad for Brad |
scot project…
I really don't think there was anything that difficult to understand. It isn't any more esoteric than some of the other convos that happen here. It just isn't something people think about and they should. |
|
|
| Kenny Rogers |
| actually structuring my tracks, introducing elements and the transitions between parts, and mix the parts into each other is one of my few strong sides. i suck at mixing and stuff but this is one of the things i know how to do. and its also the thing i enjoy the most, making the song interesting with loads of details. |
|
|
| theterran |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
to give an example would be time consuming. And I don't have 30 minutes at the moment. It is concept and philosophy than any good producer , composer, writer , directer adheres to. People don't just put random things together which I often feel is the case with many here. When i'm online, I am always at work taking a little break or waiting for something to process. I'm never just surfing the web so it isn't easy to break down a track and show how elements are related and how everything has a logical place and purpose. The idea i proposed should be enough. |
lol.
So you ARE in fact talking about, specifically, the EDM on this board.
Fail.
Again,it seems like a simple case of Amateurs vs. Professionals. I'm not really familiar with who's a pro/amateur here, but it's safe to say that a large majority of the music sent to the PP forum is generated by non-professionals. (Most threads start with "My first track plz halp") So what do you really expect?
Basically it feels like you're trying to compare Bob Ross to little 5 year old billy and his incomplete set of crayola crayons.
Little billy with his crayola box, like most Vin Diesel fans, will make ty stick figure pictures, where the wrong colors were used, and he's colored outside the lines. But little billy most likely does not care for your insight, because he's simply having fun and making what he can with what he can, and so what if he added maybe an extra appendage or two...
Bob Ross on the other hand is a trained professional...He knows where to get the best paint, brushes, medium (canvas), and has a good idea on how to approach a piece and create it vividly, in an effective manner. Naturally his works will be pleasing to the eye on a larger scale...where with Little Billy, it may only be his mother congratulating him on his horrid little drawing.
Bob Ross also does not care for your insight, because he as an artist, and knows that haters are gonna hate.
So yeah, eventually little billy might become famous artist like Bob Ross someday...or a washout scrub. And whether or not he does become famous is relevant to the "improvement" factor you (brad) brought up. Most people (with talent and passion for their artform) are naturally trying to improve themselves every day, and these are the people that wind up producing works of art, or becoming famous. (For the most part...some choose not to be famous...)
And most often, the e will dissappear all by itself...with no need to whine or guff about the current state of affairs. Most likely, the "older" crew of musicians is on the way out, while the newer ones are stepping up to the plate.
The manner in which the topic was brought about leads me to believe that this is a trollll post. As there really is no formal insight into the matter with the OP...No examples, just general faffing, lots of trolling....with more random out of context quotations and trolling...
I now think that Mad for Brad should demonstrate his musical prowess and post a track that he's made all by himself, showing us 'musically inept' what proper form is. And then we can all remix his track and become famous! |
|
|
|
|
