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So what is the big deal with the TSA pat downs? (pg. 10)
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by KStuff
Just had my first opt out on Sunday! Canadian flight YYZ-YVR, didn't even have to take off my shoes in security. A hybrid of American and Canadian regulations. It went well, no one was annoyed or anything.
Will opt out again A+++ |
at what point do you say you don't want to go through the scanner? |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by RuKuS .H
IMO i find it necessary. Even tho airplanes are the safest way to travel but with the highest rate of casualties |
I found your responce so silly
have you even looked at the nature of casualties on the planes recently? for example, for 2009
| quote: | January 15 – US Airways Flight 1549, an Airbus A320 ditches in the Hudson River just after taking off from LaGuardia Airport in New York City after total engine failure due to multiple bird strikes, no fatalities.
February 7 – A Manaus Aerotáxi Embraer EMB-110 Bandeirante crashes near Santo António, Brazil killing 24 of the 28 aboard.
February 12 – Colgan Air Flight 3407, a Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 flying from Newark Liberty International in New Jersey to Buffalo Niagara International Airport in New York crashes into a house in Clarence, New York at 10:17 pm local time; all 49 aboard the plane are killed, with one fatality on the ground.
February 25 – Turkish Airlines Flight 1951, a Boeing 737-800 flying from Atatürk Airport in Istanbul to Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam crashes in a field during final approach; of the 127 passengers and 7 crew on board, 9 are killed, 85 injured.
March 12 - Cougar Helicopters Flight 91, a Sikorsky S-92, ditches in the Atlantic 34 miles (55 km) east-southeast of Newfoundland due to a main gearbox failure, killing 17 of 18 on board.
March 20 – Emirates Airline Flight 407, an Airbus A340-500 flying from Melbourne Tullamarine Airport in Melbourne to Dubai International Airport in Dubai has a tailstrike during take off and returns to Melbourne Airport with no fatalities.
March 23 – FedEx Express Flight 80, a McDonnell Douglas MD-11 flying from Guangzhou, China crashes at Tokyo Narita International Airport, Japan; both the captain and the co-pilot of the plane are killed.
April 1 – Bond Offshore Helicopters Flight 85N, a Eurocopter AS332, crashes 35 miles (56 km) off the Aberdeenshire coast while returning from the Miller oilfield, killing all 16 on board; the cause is a catastrophic failure of the main rotor gearbox.
April 19 – CanJet Flight 918 is seized on the ground by an armed man who slipped through security checks at Sangster International Airport, Montego Bay, Jamaica; all passengers are released early on; six crew members are kept as hostages for several hours before being freed unharmed.
June 1 – Air France Flight 447, an Airbus A330-200 flying from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil to Paris, France, crashes in the Atlantic Ocean killing all 228 occupants, including 12 crew; bodies and aircraft debris are not recovered until several days later.
June 30 – Yemenia Flight 626, an Airbus A310-300 flying from Sana'a, Yemen to Moroni, Comoros, crashes into the Indian Ocean with 153 people aboard; one 12-year-old is found clinging to the wreckage.
July 13 – Southwest Airlines Flight 2294, a Boeing 737-300 from Nashville to Baltimore makes an emergency landing in Charleston, West Virginia after a 14x17 inch hole opens in the skin of the fuselage at 34,000 feet (10,000 m), causing a loss of cabin pressure; the plane lands safely with no injuries.
July 15 – Caspian Airlines Flight 7908, a Tupolev Tu-154, crashes 16 minutes after takeoff near Qazvin, Iran, killing all 153 passengers and 15 crew.
July 24 – Aria Air Flight 1525, an Ilyushin Il-62 skids off a runway in Iran, killing at least 17 with 136 survivors.
August 2 – Merpati Nusantara Airlines Flight 9760, a de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter crashes into a mountain in good weather over Indonesia, killing all 13 passengers and 3 crew.
August 4 – Bangkok Airways Flight 266, an ATR 72-200 carrying 68 passengers crashes in severe weather on landing at Samui airport in the resort island of Ko Samui in Thailand, resulting in at least 1 confirmed death and 37 injuries.
August 11 – Airlines PNG Flight 4684, a de Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter carrying 11 passengers and 2 crew crashes into a mountain at Isurava, Papua New Guinea whilst attempting a go around at Kokoda Airport, Papua New Guinea; all passengers and crew perished in the accident.
September 4 – Air India Flight 829, a Boeing 747-400 with 213 passengers and 16 crew, catches fire on push-back at Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport, Mumbai; all are evacuated with 21 receiving minor injuries, the aircraft sustains substantial damage.
September 9 – AeroMéxico Flight 576, a Boeing 737-800 with 104 passengers onboard, is hijacked whilst flying from Cancún to Mexico City; after landing at Mexico City International Airport, Mexican officials storm the plane and take 5 men into custody; there are no casualties.
October 21 – Azza Transport Flight 2241, a Boeing 707-330C, crashes on take off from Sharjah International Airport, United Arab Emirates; all 6 crew members are killed.
October 21 – Northwest Airlines Flight 188, an Airbus A320, overshoots its Minneapolis destination from San Diego by about 150 miles (240 km) and lands safely over one hour late; pilots are apparently distracted on personal laptop computers.
November 12 – RwandAir Flight 205, a Bombardier CRJ-100, crashes into a terminal shortly after an emergency landing at Kigali International Airport, Rwanda; of the 10 passengers and 5 crew, 1 passenger dies.
December 22 – American Airlines Flight 331, a Boeing 737-800 from Miami International Airport overruns the runway at Norman Manley International Airport, Kingston, Jamaica; there are 40 injuries and no fatalities.
[b]December 25 – Northwest Airlines Flight 253, an Airbus A330-300 is attacked by a man using a small explosive device, causing only a small fire inside the plane, which is extinguished by a flight attendant; the man is subdued by passengers and crew; there are 3 injuries. |
only 2 major casualties of that nature.. compared to all the crime that happens on the ground every day, that's nothing.. |
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| RuKuS .H |
I meant the highest rate of causalities per incident.
a lot of people can get hurt very fast, a lot of lives are at risk if something happened over a crowded city like Tokyo or L.A
take for example 9/11 3000+ lives in tow hits come on thats a lot of damage a lot of trouble.
the bigger, the faster the object is the more damage it cause like trains for example but airplane travel a lot faster than trains, they FLY and you cant predict where they'll end up so that makes them an easy target and an affective weapon in the wrong hands
IMO there is a lot at risk to consider personal preferences. |
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| jester |
If someone did this to a US diplomat anywhere in the world. The US would probably invade the country.
In other news... there was an article on gizmodo or engadget about the body scanner. There is a way to trick the scanner or something. |
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| jester |
| quote: | The airline industry body IATA unveiled a plan on Tuesday to replace lengthy and sometimes intrusive passenger security checks at airports with a new system aimed at finding "bad people, not bad objects."
Under the project, an early version of which could be in place within two to three years if governments cooperate, travellers would be directed down one of three security tunnels depending on profiles based on biometric data and flight booking data.
"The current system of putting everyone through the same procedure — taking off shoes, pulling out laptops — is an incredible mess. It is causing longer and longer delays," said IATA director-general Giovanni Bisignani.
"With today's terror threats, we need to be able to find bad people, not bad objects. We can only do that by assessing passengers for risk with appropriate security checks to follow," he told journalists at the body’s Geneva headquarters.
Mr. Bisignani was speaking at a media briefing held every year by IATA, the 230-member International Air Transport Association, at which he announced the industry would return to profit this year and next at higher levels than expected.
Airport security has mushroomed since the Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. targets by al-Qaeda militants using hijacked passenger planes and subsequent attempts by suicide bombers to detonate inflight explosives, including a failed attempt by a Nigerian man on a U.S.-bound plane last Christmas Day.
Anger at stepped-up airport security procedures — including full-body scanners and "pat-down" manual body searches, widespread in the United States — has spilt over recently with traveller revolts against the systems.
Diplomatic incidents
The procedures have also caused diplomatic incidents, as when the Indian ambassador in Washington was subjected earlier this month to an airport pat-down in Mississippi and her government complained.
The IATA plan — which Bisignani said had been in the works for some time before the U.S. passenger revolts — would eliminate the need for nearly all such screening as well as routine scanning and searches of carry-on luggage.
After checking in heavy bags and passing passport controls, travellers would identify themselves at security with a fingerprint, biometric passport or mobile phone boarding pass, and be checked electronically against their stored profile.
They would then be automatically assigned to one of the tunnels — one for registered "known travellers" where checks would be light, one where checks would be at "normal security" level, and the third an "enhanced security" lane.
In the first two tunnels, most passengers would walk with hand luggage past sophisticated electronic detector devices and into the departure lounge if nothing unusual is registered.
Mr. Bisignani said the profile would be based on details travellers provide when buying their ticket, including whether they had paid by cash or credit card, and would be checked by national security or intelligence services.
But IATA global security director Ken Dunlap said the system would not be based on racial or ethnic profiling. "We are completely opposed to checking people by the colour of their skin or by their nationality," he added.
Mr. Dunlap said IATA was discussing the plan with governments, which would have to finance it. If an intermediate version were in place by 2014 in key airports, a full one could be working within seven to 10 years. |
(Courtesy of The Financial Post) |
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| She_Fitz |
Flew from Manchester to NYC yesterday and thought the procedures out of England were interesting.
First thing we did was go through a security check before even getting our boarding passes. They asked a number of questions and showing my passport as well as US resident card was apparently not enough ID. She also wanted something else with my name on it. She seemed really annoyed that I did not have a driver's license.
They asked a series of questions and then took our documents to be cleared by another member of the team.
From there we went through regular security - no need to take of shoes or my sweater (which must be done in US). I was then randomly picked to go through the scanner. From there I had to take my shoes off.
Before boarding the gate we were greeted by the same security people that we dealt with before getting our boarding passes. They asked another series of questions regarding our bags and where they had been since checking in. They also wanted to see our boarding passes.
From there we had to show our boarding passes 3 times prior to boarding the plane - from the gate to the plane door. |
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| *~LiSa-LoO~* |
| quote: | Originally posted by She_Fitz
Flew from Manchester to NYC yesterday and thought the procedures out of England were interesting.
First thing we did was go through a security check before even getting our boarding passes. They asked a number of questions and showing my passport as well as US resident card was apparently not enough ID. She also wanted something else with my name on it. She seemed really annoyed that I did not have a driver's license.
They asked a series of questions and then took our documents to be cleared by another member of the team.
From there we went through regular security - no need to take of shoes or my sweater (which must be done in US). I was then randomly picked to go through the scanner. From there I had to take my shoes off.
Before boarding the gate we were greeted by the same security people that we dealt with before getting our boarding passes. They asked another series of questions regarding our bags and where they had been since checking in. They also wanted to see our boarding passes.
From there we had to show our boarding passes 3 times prior to boarding the plane - from the gate to the plane door. |
Wow! That's intense. |
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| Yohan |
it's hilarious that all the effort is on airport security, yet places like subway, bus terminals and train stations are pretty much open targets
airplane terrorism gets more air time, but blowing up a train or a bus is just as effective |
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| jester |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
it's hilarious that all the effort is on airport security, yet places like subway, bus terminals and train stations are pretty much open targets
airplane terrorism gets more air time, but blowing up a train or a bus is just as effective |
TSA/Homeland Security would like this kind of security at all those place. Especially at metro stations. If they implement this at metro stations, no one would take the metro... Everyone would decide to take a cab or walk.
If TSA/Homeland keep going at this, many business will lose millions. Plus they spend millions of tax payers dollars.
Either way the Americans are practically screwed. |
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| *~LiSa-LoO~* |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
it's hilarious that all the effort is on airport security, yet places like subway, bus terminals and train stations are pretty much open targets
airplane terrorism gets more air time, but blowing up a train or a bus is just as effective |
Such a good point. |
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~*
Such a good point. |
But that's the point of terror... its put where there is more fear, not what makes sense. |
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