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Goodbye Sweden. (pg. 10)
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| Redd |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Znack, you like the stuff churned out by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris, don't you? |
is that a negative? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Redd
is that a negative? |
No, that's a tag question. |
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| Znack |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Znack, you like the stuff churned out by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris, don't you? |
Probably all racists in your eyes. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Znack
Probably all racists in your eyes. |
No, I don't think they're racists. I think they're just like religious fundamentalists - except in this case the phrase "irreligious fundamentalists" makes a lot more sense.
And I'm going to take that as a yes. Oh, those champions of rationality, so much for reason... |
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| Moral Hazard |
Fun...
| quote: | Originally posted by Znack
Let's not be so enthralled to our own principles and freedoms that we fail to recognize when they are being "hijacked" and abused at our expense. I don't think I should have to stand idly by, restrained by a belief in religious freedom, as sharia law is imposed on us all; or when women are forced to conceal their identity; or when a mosque is being built to propagate the same ancient dogma that caused 9/11 in the first place. At some point, there has to be a time when we say no, Islam cannot use the protective shield of religious liberty as an excuse to be hateful and inhuman. |
A few things here.... 1) if one believes in freedom they must believe in freedom for those whom they do not necessarally agree with as well. You cannot say you believe in freedom for everyone except Muslims. 2) If we don't stick to our principles when challenged then they don't really mean very much. 3) No one has asked anyone to stand idly by while sharia law is imposed under the guise of religious freedom... in fact, a belief in religious freedom more or less mandates that one challange the imposition of sharia law... of course it's a red herring as no one is actually considering such an imposition. 4) Both the burqa and niqab are cultural dress that a) predate Islam, and b) are not mandated by the religion. Again, you seem more xenophobic then actually having a rational ideological conflict here, as you seem to oppose an ideology that doesn't actually exist but if it does it is not one and the same with Islam.
| quote: | | Muslims all adhere to the same ideology |
All? Every Muslim believes the exact same thing? Their thoughts are entirely consistant? Their positions are entirely consistant? There is not a single Muslim that believes anything that differs from another?
| quote: | | which is fundamentally in conflict with our enlightened values. |
Really? Every Muslim is unenlightened and in complete conflict with our values? Which values, exactly? Please explain the fundamental conflict every Muslim has with each.
| quote: | | The term 'moderate Muslims', simply means Muslims who are less Muslim than so called 'extremists', but religious extremists are usually right about what is written in their holy books. |
um... wow. Ignoring the shear idiocy of "less Muslim" I must ask; how is it that you know the extremists are "right" about what is written in their holy books? Can you even identify "their holy books"? Do you read Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic? Can you verify that the Sufis are more correct in their interpretation then are the Sunnis?
| quote: | | I believe in freedom. I just don't believe in the absurd idea of religion getting a free pass to infect it's disease on society under the safety of a supposed inviolable freedom to do so. You have the freedom to practice your religion in a way that doesn't conflict with secular values. I don't think that's too much to ask. |
Freedoms tend to trump values, as the former are enshrined in law and the later are entirely individual. If you advanced the argument that one has a freedom to practice their religion provided that the method of practice does not infringe on the rights of others I would be right with you... but to suggest that freedom takes a back seat to the generally held values of the day is to suggest there should be no protection for the rights of the minority on any issue. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
What makes you think Dawkins and his peers are "just like religious fundamentalists?"
Is it the way Dawkins threatens to behead and blow up those who disagree with him? The way he disdains science and rational debate? The way he wants to forcibly convert those who disagree with his views?
;) |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
What makes you think Dawkins and his peers are "just like religious fundamentalists?"
Is it the way Dawkins threatens to behead and blow up those who disagree with him? The way he disdains science and rational debate? The way he wants to forcibly convert those who disagree with his views?
;) |
If I had to guess it would be their zeal for and certainty in their positions. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
What makes you think Dawkins and his peers are "just like religious fundamentalists?"
Is it the way Dawkins threatens to behead and blow up those who disagree with him? The way he disdains science and rational debate? The way he wants to forcibly convert those who disagree with his views?
;) |
No, the way (t)he(y) think(s) there's a Truth and that anyone that disagrees with him is automatically deluded, wrong, and a threat to world peace... as Moral just pointed out a few seconds before me :p
And Christopher Hitchens Sam Harris wrote the worst rebuttal ever to Pragmatism in his book "End of Faith". He clearly understands American philosophy as much as he understands religiosity.
Edit: Thanks for the correction, Brian. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| I thought that The End Of Faith was by Sam Harris. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
I'm inclined to agree somewhat with znack here, mostly on the racecard being pulled at any sign of criticism.
Nou, you're talking out of your ass. Again. Have you ever even been to Scandinavia? And why do you assume he's a christian because he's from Denmark? I know maybe a handful devout christians, or anything that comes remotely close to the christians in America.
Stop playing internet bad-ass, it's clearly not for you. |
You clearly have no sarcasm detector. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
I thought that The End Of Faith was by Sam Harris. |
Oops, I stand corrected. It was indeed Sam Harris who wrote that (makes more sense, since he's the one with a BA in philosophy). |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| May the most prolific amoeba prevail! |
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