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Goodbye Sweden. (pg. 9)
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| Chimney |
| I have several muslim friends which are great people, and they are very religious. However, when they leave home during the morning, they leave the religion at home (so to speak) and act like everyone else. |
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| Znack |
| quote: | Originally posted by montana
i'm not disturbed to be honest. to be honest, what's happening in europe disturbs me, in general. it's not about religion, it's more about politics at large. |
What disturbs me is the fact that polls in Britain suggest that an alarmingly high percentage of young British Muslims support the terrorists of 9/11 and 7/7, and some 40% of Muslims want Sharia Law introduced into Britain. Disquietingly high percentages supported the death sentence against Salman Rushdie and the threats of violence against the Danish cartoonists. Even 'moderate' Muslim leaders support the principle that apostasy deserves the death penalty, even if they are too nice to carry out the sentence themselves. |
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| Znack |
| quote: | Originally posted by Znack
What disturbs me is the fact that polls in Britain suggest that an alarmingly high percentage of young British Muslims support the terrorists of 9/11 and 7/7, and some 40% of Muslims want Sharia Law introduced into Britain. Disquietingly high percentages supported the death sentence against Salman Rushdie and the threats of violence against the Danish cartoonists. Even 'moderate' Muslim leaders support the principle that apostasy deserves the death penalty, even if they are too nice to carry out the sentence themselves. |
And let's remember, those are just the Muslims prepared to own up to their views IN PUBLIC POLLS. The actual figures of British Muslims supporting 9/11 and 7/7 might be even higher. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| In order to fit into modern Western societies, a religion's practitioners must accept modern notions of religious convictions being private matters that do not give you the right to assault people for "insulting" your god, for being "immodest," or doing any number of other things that result in no physical or financial harm to you or anyone else. Unfortunately, a portion of Muslim immigrants do not accept this. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
I'm inclined to agree somewhat with znack here, mostly on the racecard being pulled at any sign of criticism. |
I didn't pull out the race/bigot card because of criticism. I did attack some rather slanted hyperbole along with the person who presented it. There's no question that Muslims have had a hard time adapting to life in European countries and the fact that there has been a significant amount of friction resulting from that. Honestly, if one of them were on here making cases for their cause with the same level of hyperbole and bias, I'd have taken the exact same approach with them.
Znack has come in here with very inflammatory rhetoric supported with citation from right-wing blogs and publications which painted their anecdotes with shock value. There has been relatively little information forthcoming from more reliable sources concerning this problem, which parallels the level of alarmist conjecture presented by Znack and his sources.
Basically, I reject your assertion that he's been unfairly called out. |
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| Domesticated |
I think this is a 'problem' that a lot of affluent countries are facing at the moment. There was a series of videos that went around a while ago claiming that the high number of children that Islamic immigrants birth means that in the near future they will overrun their adopted countries. However, the videos were proven entirely false statistically, and they were produced by some radical Christian sect.
I really don't have a problem with immigrants coming to a country. I've even come to accept that many of them will never bother or want to integrate, linguistically or culturally. What I do have a major problem with is immigrants criticising the culture of their adopted country. Come, live, enjoy - but don't dare try and alter the very place that took pity on you and opened their doors.
A perfect example: radical Muslims calling their adopted country's women whores, because of a bit of leg being shown. If you don't like it, off back to your own ty country. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Znack
We’re pretending that all cultures are equal. Well we can clearly see that they’re not. Islamic culture is NOT equal to Western culture. It encourages violence against women, against Jews and homosexuals. It sanctions polygamy and marrying old men to young children in a disgusting travesty of human relations. |
Does it now? All sects do this? All Muslims subscribe to this? How specifically does it encourage violence toward women, jews and homosexuals? Do you hate Jews and Christians as well?
| quote: | | If we were serious about respecting Islam we would give it an HONEST REALITY CHECK. Islam needs to adapt to Europe. Not the other way around. Now, I know a lot of Muslims actually agree with this and they make an effort to adapt and to rub along with everybody else, which is great and it’s very welcomed. But we all know that a lot of others don’t. |
So it's not all Muslims? If so then why do you blame "Islam" for your problems rather then blaming individuals?
| quote: | Those people who flew airplanes into the world trade center did it because they thought it was the right thing to do based on their religious believes. I actually do not think that those people were bad people in everyday life. Good people are perfectly capable of doing bad things when they are motivated by something they believe to be the absolute truth
The persons who flew airplanes into the world trade center, truly believed they would go to heaven and that they would be rewarded for their actions.
If they were not motivated by religion to do so, then they would not have sacrificed their lives for it. |
Is that so? Is it only religion that would motivate one to sacrifice their lives? Does every adhearant to any belief system deserve scorn because some have committed disagreeable acts based on their belief to same?
See, your position sounds a lot more like zenophobia then a reasonable disagreement with an ideology... especially since you seem incapable of articulating what the ideology is and what aspects of it you disagree with. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
A perfect example: radical Muslims calling their adopted country's women whores, because of a bit of leg being shown. If you don't like it, off back to your own ty country. |
"Modesty" is really just a euphemism for the desire to control and oppress women with arbitrary restrictions on their choices anyway. |
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| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
"Modesty" is really just a euphemism for the desire to control and oppress women with arbitrary restrictions on their choices anyway. |
It's not as one-sided as it seems though. I was listening to a podcast a while back where they chatted with the author of a book called The Reluctant Mullah. He's a Muslim living in England, but a very liberal one who basically laughs/cringes at the others of his religion.
This author was called into a school to chat to a group of young Muslim women who, despite their parents' insistence, refused to remove their burkas. When he asked the girls why they wanted to wear them, the girls replied that it gave them a sense of empowerment. Empowerment in that they can look out, and no one can look in. In effect, they can observe society without having to participate. They're probably super ugly. |
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| Znack |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Does it now? All sects do this? All Muslims subscribe to this? How specifically does it encourage violence toward women, jews and homosexuals? Do you hate Jews and Christians as well?
So it's not all Muslims? If so then why do you blame "Islam" for your problems rather then blaming individuals?
Is that so? Is it only religion that would motivate one to sacrifice their lives? Does every adhearant to any belief system deserve scorn because some have committed disagreeable acts based on their belief to same?
See, your position sounds a lot more like zenophobia then a reasonable disagreement with an ideology... especially since you seem incapable of articulating what the ideology is and what aspects of it you disagree with. |
Let's not be so enthralled to our own principles and freedoms that we fail to recognize when they are being "hijacked" and abused at our expense. I don't think I should have to stand idly by, restrained by a belief in religious freedom, as sharia law is imposed on us all; or when women are forced to conceal their identity; or when a mosque is being built to propagate the same ancient dogma that caused 9/11 in the first place. At some point, there has to be a time when we say no, Islam cannot use the protective shield of religious liberty as an excuse to be hateful and inhuman.
Muslims all adhere to the same ideology, which is fundamentally in conflict with our enlightened values. Do you think the banning of Nazi symbols in Germany is discrimination against 'moderate' Nazis? The term 'moderate Muslims', simply means Muslims who are less Muslim than so called 'extremists', but religious extremists are usually right about what is written in their holy books. It is ridiculous to allow the continued propagation of such a disgusting ideology due to fear of offending those who subscribe to the same ideology, but just not as much, i.e. 'moderate Muslims'.
I believe in freedom. I just don't believe in the absurd idea of religion getting a free pass to infect it's disease on society under the safety of a supposed inviolable freedom to do so. You have the freedom to practice your religion in a way that doesn't conflict with secular values. I don't think that's too much to ask. |
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| Lira |
| Znack, you like the stuff churned out by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris, don't you? |
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