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contract question (pg. 4)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by MSZ
wrong attitude man, maybe this is a part of the reason why people dont expect to make a penny. there is money to be made bro dont let anyone tell your otherwise. |
This is so ing true it hurts.
I personally think that the larger labels are happy to proliferate the idea that small/medium releases make no money. They still make money, otherwise they wouldn't bother and the can't get away with it when serious money is involved.
M4B is right about a lot of what he's posting.
1 page contracts are virtually worthless as it's incredibly difficult to define anything in a page, so much of it is left to ambiguity, which from a legal standpoint is a terrible thing to have regarding property.
The best piece of advice I was ever given in my contract classes at Audio Engineering School was:
"There are three things you should never go cheap on:
1, Hookers
2, Drugs
3, Lawyers"
And the teacher that told me that was the manager of the band Rush for 20 years and head of Warner A&R for a decade.
Hire a lawyer and get him to explain a typical contract with all the usual clauses you'd expect to find in a music or intellectual property agreement. It will be the best $500-$1000 you ever spend, and it will help you with so many other things in life as well.
(I recently had to negotiate a 80 page commercial building lease and that education was a HUGE benefit).
A 30 page contract, while excessive for a small EDM release, gives you far more protection that a POS 1 pager with no difinitions and a lot of vagueness, as long as you understand what you are signing and you can get some breaks on the things you want. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| also if you have major label interest , many entertainment lawyers will give you a freebie as they will recoup your business over a period of years. More in the way you approach them and the wording you use. I mean you don't ask for a free consultation. But if you mention you have major label interest in the $$$$ range and you need someone to help you just gloss over a contract, you will be able to get about 30 minutes of free advice. |
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| Rodri Santos |
i don't see worthy to hire a lawyer for this, in most cases you can't modify the contract and this big labels will suddenly lose interest in you if you start to be very picky on the terms, that 30 page contract have a reason, it has been developed by 5 experienced lawyers among the years and is what makes the contract completely safe for them, pay 1,000$ to a lawyer if you expect to make that much a contract should start this way:
-Definitions, what time, period, space... everything means, you can have easily 2 pages just for definitions, the definition of Artist can be 5 inches long, don't be afraid of this, this just makes things clearer.
-Rights of the track/s exclusive/non exclusive: BIG thing here, this is where you'd usually get scammed assure that you keep all the rigths and that they only have distribution rights for a limited period of time.
-Accounting: Usually 50/50 and 25-30 for the remixes, i signed a contract where i got 30% if artists remix my track but i don't know how usual is this. I consider this abusive but won't start writing about my thoughts, be warned of:
-If they will pay you in advance (rare nowadays)
-Payments done , when and where? Usually there is a figure already fixed, 50$,100$... so you won't get a penny before you reach this, where is check,paypal... just be aware of penalties, sometimes they would eventually include some clauses where you carry costs, you respond if you get sued etc... avoid this, in the long term mean problems.
Finally you should know how the sales are going, at least monthly you should know how many sales have you got and you should be able to request audited documents of your sales.
This is briefly what you should expect from an EDM contract, 5 years sounds way too much for me, specially because that looks endless, all the contracts should give the option to dismiss the contract after a time with no costs, now if you cancel your contract you might get sued or most probably you'll lose the distribution rights of your tracks. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| but language is everything. Saying 50/50 means absolutely nothing in legal terms. I mean that is technically a ratio of 1. Which means either you get it all or they get it all. I don't think they are malicious, just stupid. Especially when there are templates available for free on the net. This is just lazy as . And again the part about exclusive rights. So vague. Exclusive to who ? |
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| Rodri Santos |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
but language is everything. Saying 50/50 means absolutely nothing in legal terms. I mean that is technically a ratio of 1. Which means either you get it all or they get it all. I don't think they are malicious, just stupid. Especially when there are templates available for free on the net. This is just lazy as . And again the part about exclusive rights. So vague. Exclusive to who ? |
Obviously this is briefly if you pick a legal code you'll see that they put even excessive emphasis in commas and punctuation, international law for example is particularly obscure, all the countries want to get benefit from this eventual typos, in the end they need 3 sheets to define what a tree is. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodri Santos
Obviously this is briefly if you pick a legal code you'll see that they put even excessive emphasis in commas and punctuation, international law for example is particularly obscure, all the countries want to get benefit from this eventual typos, in the end they need 3 sheets to define what a tree is. |
True but don't take it for granted. What happens if you're track suddenly gets used for a major commercial, then a brand decides to use it for their jungle for all their international marketing campaigns for the next decade.
I've seen it happen, and suddenly that 1 page contract seems like the worst idea you ever had.
I'm not saying hire a lawyer to go over that contract - I'm saying hire a hot entertainment lawyer to teach you with an expensive hour of his time (or blag it like M4B says).
If it's going to be a 1 pager, then at least limit it's scope - let the right revert completely back to you after a year. It's you're going to have the chance of being ed, at least don't let it go on forever.
Finally, if you put on clause in a contract, make sure it's the "right to audit" clause. If a label baulks at this one, you know they're just ing you on the payment. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodri Santos
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Have you ever read an actual record contract? The first draft almost always has errors/defaults to benefit the record company and it is so complexly worded that someone who has no experience with it, is going to have an awfully hard time negotiating for themselves, let alone actually adhering to a full understanding of that contract. Terre Thaemlitz (http://redbullmusicacademyradio.com/shows/3122/) talks about how smaller labels adopted major label contracts which, ostensibly, are completely ed. You raise the spectre of a contract written by five lawyers, but what are entertainment lawyers paid to do if not negotiate their client out of the ed up terms embedded in the label's contracts? |
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| Kid_presentable |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
For every one Eric Prydz there are 5,000 Kid Presentables. If you make it to that level in your current situation, you're a very lucky outlier. |
hahha..offcourse...moree so,,,,,but you havee completely missed my point... :eyes:
*edit -promotion,bootlegs,piracy works.. after putting a taste tester of my release i got 2 gig offers in 1 day ( yesterday ) in which i choose entry fee and take all door sales. one is oxford art factory, one of Sydney's biggest clubs.....think bloody beetroots....
anyway unfortunately I'm going to have to learn to dj b4 i can make some $$ that way. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kid_presentable
hahha..offcourse...moree so,,,,,but you havee completely missed my point... :eyes: |
Which is? |
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| Kid_presentable |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Which is? |
look above at the edit |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Have you ever read an actual record contract? The first draft almost always has errors/defaults to benefit the record company and it is so complexly worded that someone who has no experience with it, is going to have an awfully hard time negotiating for themselves, let alone actually adhering to a full understanding of that contract. Terre Thaemlitz (http://redbullmusicacademyradio.com/shows/3122/) talks about how smaller labels adopted major label contracts which, ostensibly, are completely ed. You raise the spectre of a contract written by five lawyers, but what are entertainment lawyers paid to do if not negotiate their client out of the ed up terms embedded in the label's contracts? |
The problem is that sometimes when you start questioning a contract, they tell you to off, and that's a good sign they are going to screw you anyway so it's not worth signing in the first place.
The best thing you can do to discourage this is to behave like a business person form the outset;
1, when you first start talking to them, mention that your lawyer will be looking over the contract (even if you're the person looking over it). It will instantly sort the wheat from the chaff and those labels that are looking for muppets to sign dodgy contracts will just back out.
2, Do not come across like a noob or this is your first release.
Mention that you used to working off standard contracts and it's not going to be a big deal or process to go through the contract.
3, Whatever they offer you or chat about do not verbally agree to anything - just say you can talk about th terms once you see the contract. Chances are you might get more than expected but you'll never if you spill your load before getting the paperwork.
Finally, I do think that new/current producers are the problem there isnt any money in the industry. Don't let the labels set the standard of getting something for free, that they make money off. I've heard a few people say they've had tracks signed to major-ish compilations and never even been told about it let alone get any money for it.
Seriously, WTF? I don't give a shot if they only sell 10 copies - give me my £2.50 (with interest if it's late). Imagine they do that 50 people in a couple months. Thats a tidy profit for them and all for the artists. it also breeds complacency amongst labels so there's less pressure for them to sell as they don't have to share any of the income. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kid_presentable
look above at the edit |
I read the edit. I still don't know what that has to do with what I'm saying or even how what I've said is impertinent. It's great that your label is circulating your material to blog-writers but it's in the label's interest to do that and there's no provision for intellectual property rights in the meager "contract" you've provided, let alone any stipulation about how you're supposed to be paid, apart from a very general 50/50 split.
50% of what, exactly? 50% of total sales, profit after per-unit operating expenses, 50% after initialization costs and promotion, or 50% of whatever they tell you what's sold in their Beatport POS? And, quite honestly, 50% of pre-market sales is a good deal, if they're selling vinyl but it's when your product is an infinitely replicable commodity because basically, it doesn't cost the label much to hock your tune. There's an initial outlay of cash, like how they may have paid the blog writer to put up a favorable review of your work, plus they might fire up the marketing team on your behalf, but are you seeing any money before they recoup their costs? Is it after they've recouped all operating costs accrued as a result of marketing your tune, that your tune begins profiting you by 50%? How long does it stay at 50% and what portion of sales, exactly, does that 50% pertain to? |
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