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Ontario Provincial Elections 2011 Discussion (pg. 3)
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
I consider cutting LHIN as cutting healthcare as LHIN is an organization meant to create healthcare efficiencies. Delegating healthcare funds to hospitals, reducing wait times ETC. |
Is it working?
If it is, then I'm on your side.
If it's not, then get rid of it.
That's my only opinion on that specific matter.
How about those proposed cuts by Harper? You dig up anything yet, or were you just spouting the typical leftist hyperbole? |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
sorry i meant hudak. |
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| Spam |
Sorry about that, musta skipped right over that post last night while I was skimming through. Anyways, like I said, Hudak is a joke, and it's a damn shame, because I really don't want McGuinty around for another 4 years...
Maybe a minority government wouldn't be so bad. |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Is it working?
If it is, then I'm on your side.
If it's not, then get rid of it.
That's my only opinion on that specific matter.
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So there's nothing in between keeping and getting rid of, ie maybe fixing them? If your car's tires are gone do you replace them or just ditch the thing entirely?
There's definitely room for improvement with the LHINs but there's been almost no attempt to improve what isn't working with them. I see Hudak's proposed ditching of them as your typical attack the other parties' creation, vote buying more or less. Don't forget they were created for a reason and Hudak is refusing to say a word of how he would change the system other than getting rid of the current one.
| quote: | Originally posted by jchung52
My issue with Hudak especially since he is making hydro bills a big part of his campaign is what are his solutions, game plan? To be honest, he doesn't have one nor knows wtf to do. He's already getting put on the spot to show real numbers supporting his claims but cannot produce anything. |
Hydro bills, healthcare, the majority of his big shake up "change" initiatives simply say he'll get rid of something or do it differently than it currently is without saying how he WILL do it. It's BS like this that makes me hates politics/politicians and he's all over it. |
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| Swamper |
| quote: | Originally posted by jchung52
My issue with Hudak especially since he is making hydro bills a big part of his campaign is what are his solutions, game plan? To be honest, he doesn't have one nor knows wtf to do. He's already getting put on the spot to show real numbers supporting his claims but cannot produce anything. |
Agreed.
In the political arena it seems having a concrete plan with accurate numbers is a misnomer. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
^^^ that's what the current consensus is.
I really don't think people fully understand what the consequences would be of cons at both the federal and provincial level (and municipal if you're in TO). Will take decades to come back from the damage imo. |
I tend to agree. What bothers me is I just don't like McGuinty and like Harper, I just don't trust him. I would vote liberal if it was someone other then McGuinty. I can live with either the Liberals or Conservatives being in power though. I can't support NDP simply because of the field of business I'm in. I think the NDP is going to get a lot of support this election simply because of their gains in the Federal Election and the loss of Jack. I know federal and provincial are two different things but there are enough people out there who don't truly understand the differences and may give a sympathy vote to the NDP. |
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| jchung52 |
LOL Hudak was in London the other day... "If I am elected, I will scrap the Samsung deal..." This after Samsung announces it will setup a 200 employee manufacturing plant for solar panels. :rolleyes:
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/...f-18678686.html
| quote: | | It's official. While the Red Team's guy would green-light a 200-job solar parts plant in London, the Blue Team's guy would unplug it. If there was any doubt, Ontario Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak made it clear Tuesday he'd kill the plant the Liberals have promised for job-starved London by scrapping the government's $7-$billion energy deal with Korean industrial giant Samsung. Just last week, Premier $Dalton McGuinty revealed London would get the plant -- one of four green-energy manufacturing factories Samsung is to deliver, part of a deal to generate power for Ontario at prices heavily subsidized by taxpayers. In London, Hudak -- whose party has long blasted the Samsung deal's secrecy and consumer fallout -- confirmed his stand. "I won't be signing these pie-in-the sky contracts that are driving hydro rates through the roof," he said. "One thing that kills jobs - expensive energy. The higher energy rates go, the less money people have to spend in the economy." Firing back over Hudak's remarks, McGuinty warned Ontarians would pay a high price for scrapping the Samsung deal. "Most importantly, there's a terrible cost to our families," he said. The issue -- pitting costly green energy, including wind and solar power, against higher electricity bills -- is shaping up as a key flashpoint in the Oct. 6 election campaign. That's especially true in Southwestern Ontario, where many laid-off former manufacturing workers hope to cash in on some of the hundreds of jobs Samsung is expected to deliver. Apart from the London plant, Samsung and its partners are committed to open green-energy plants in Windsor, Toronto and Tillsonburg, the latter a 300-jobs factory to make blades for wind turbines. But at the same time, many rural voters in the region have decried the mushrooming number of wind-turbine towers in the area -- home to some of Ontario's largest projects -- and the lack of municipal control over where the wind farms can be built and how close to housing. Campaigning in Windsor, NDP Leader Andrea Horwath said Tuesday the Samsung deal would be safe if the NDP wins. Horwath called for major changes to Ontario's green-energy plans, but none that would affect the London plant. Hudak made his London campaign debut Monday night, at a party rally at the Four Points Sheraton on Wellington Rd. The Tories expect to make big gains in the 10-riding London area, where they held two seats in the last legislature. At a Tuesday news conference in London, Hudak sidestepped questions about several recent polls showing his party's lead has evaporated early in the campaign and that it now appears to be in a tight race, slightly trailing the Liberals. But another poll released Tuesday, by Abacus Data, suggested the Tories have a nine-point lead, the PCs with the support of 41% of decided voters, the Liberals with 32% and the NDP with 20%. Abacus reported a 3.2% margin of error. Hudak said the recent federal election, in which the Conservatives almost swept the London area, won't be a factor in the provincial campaign. "People . . . don't want four more years of Dalton McGuinty," he said. Hudak spent most of the news conference denouncing the Liberal e-health program, which he tagged as a bureaucratic boondoggle that lined the pockets of Liberal consultants. with files from Free Press reporter Pat Maloney and Kelly Pedro --- --- --- WE ASKED: WHO WINS, WHO LOSES If the PCs kill the $7B Samsung deal? The Tories could hurt themselves in London, but Hudak is counting on the wider appeal of lower power prices, said UWO political scientist Cameron Anderson. Voters, he said, are being given a clear choice, with Hudak pushing pocketbook issues while McGuinty casts himself as a visionary on longer-term energy issues. It’s not clear Hudak would scrap the Samsung deal if he wins, since he backed down on an earlier vow to scrap the Liberal-imposed HST, said Gerry Macartney of the London Chamber of Commerce. “There is no question London needs jobs, no matter where they come from . . . But we also need affordable, reliable energy sources and we have to look at the best value for our dollar.” “Speaking purely as a Londoner, you want the 200 jobs. You hope they become the building block of an emerging sector. But as an Ontario resident, you want to make sure the program itself is a wise program,” said Paul Hogendoorn, former president of the London Region Manufacturing Council. |
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| Jayx1 |
200 jobs are worthless if it costs taxpayers to have them. They wont do anything for the economy if we are paying bloated prices to have them there. The 200 jobs would actually have a net loss to the economy in the big picture.
If this had been funded privately then 200 "green" jobs would be great. But is it worth a 50% increase in hydro costs over the next few years? |
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| jchung52 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
200 jobs are worthless if it costs taxpayers to have them. They wont do anything for the economy if we are paying bloated prices to have them there. The 200 jobs would actually have a net loss to the economy in the big picture.
If this had been funded privately then 200 "green" jobs would be great. But is it worth a 50% increase in hydro costs over the next few years? |
So you are one of the believers that the FIT program is raising your bills? Come on Jay, I would expect you to have better researched your stance. Yes the "green" sector is bringing up everyone's rates but not nearly at the amount many have been led to believe. The OPA is adjusting the rates in October (as per the 2 year program period). The rate per kWh is going down (not due to political reasons but rather to make the program sustainable). There are quota's that are set and have been met. The OPA is no longer accepting large-scale projects as this allotment has been fulfilled and also due to capacity constraints. As I stated before, 80cents/kWh is only for rooftop projects under 10kW (800 sq ft). Less than 1% of our generating capacity is under that. Wind pays 13.5cents.
The "50%" increase is due to our ty grid that the PCs regretted to maintain and thus costing us billions presently to refurbish...Oh don't forget the billions spent on nuclear that we are still paying for (debt retirement charge). Hydro rates going up due to Liberal green programs? How bout Harris's overspending on his energy program? How bout the inefficency of delivering voltage long distances (average 7%)? Localized power generation can help eliminate that. Take that 7% cost per kWh and put it towards local power + green (fixed costs) and the result is a pretty sustainable system...I can keep going all day on this as this is an industry I'm quite involved with. I am still waiting for Hudak to show evidence of his platform. If he can prove me wrong, I will humbly accept it. Till then, I will continue my defense |
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by jchung52
Come on Jay, I would expect you to have better researched your stance. |
past posts would show otherwise. |
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| patpicos |
One issue I have not seen discussed in any of the platforms (perhaps because they are too busy nagging at each other's plans) is the issue of transportation.
Transportation is a big issue in Toronto from a subway expansion and highway gridlock
From my perspective, I commute from Hamilton -> Burl/Oakvile daily. 2 years ago, the stretch from skyway to Ford drive was entirely redone to add an HOV lane (and remove exit lanes). This was a weak attempt at social engineering and a total failure at easing traffic gridlock. So millions were wasted for no improvement (except for the few who commute in groups).
This year, this same stretch was repaved....why would u repave a 1yr old highway.... again more millions wasted for something not needed yet. I would have preferred that they fix the big jam happening at Guelph line (3 lanes + hov merging, in a curve, + 2 large on ramps, + everyone switching lanes) and expand the number of lines all the way to the split for QEW/403 hamilton.
I would like to hear for each parties how they plan on easing traffic gridlock. Solving/easing this issue would allow businesses to be more effective and also allow families to spend more time with each other instead of wasting time in traffic. And for the green thumbs....ease on pollution.
After research:
http://www.ontariopc.com/pdf/Changebook_en.pdf Page19 (does not speak to HOV crap tho)
http://www.ontariopc.com/issues/traffic-and-infrastructure/
http://www.ontarioliberal.ca/OurPlan/pdf/platform_english.pdf Page 42 speaks about transit, nothing about highways
http://ontariondp.ca/wp-content/uploads/Plan-for-affordable-change.pdf NDP only speaks about transit and freezing fees. Nothing about highways |
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