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New Star Wars Movie? (pg. 8)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by itsamemario
But all those plot points are so overly generic. A "Daughter of the random highest military officer" dates back to the days of Homer, and that ghost pirate guy is as much a ripoff of LeChuck as it is of William Hope Hodgson depictions in The Ghost Pirates, published before Walt Disney was even 5 years old.
Pirate stories are generic because they borrow a great deal of plot points from eachother. To all of a sudden yell out bloody murder at Pirates of the Caribbean "ripping off" Monkey Island shows an infantile understanding of the genre. |
WAT?
It's a ing pirate story. You could say there are themes in every genre that have been repeated ad nauseum in modern story telling since the Greek tragedies , but you'd have to be a fool to try to claim POTC was not a direct lift of Monkey Island.
Spielberg was an admitted fan of MI and was going to direct the film until it got canned and he was the one that hired script writer Ted elliot from MI.
http://www.worldofmi.com/comments.p...259&action=read
POTC plot elements are copies of MI: ghost pirates, voodoo ladies, smart-ass main characters, the heroine is the governors daughter, davy jones and lechuck both had tragic romances, set in the carribean.
, there are even direct storyline and character lifts:
The dog with the key in the jail, CMI's intro w/Guybrush floating into the middle of a ship/fort battle, Herman Toothrot is Ben Gunn, Will and Jack make up Guybrush, Barbossa and Davy Jones are LeChuck (One is in control of undead pirates and plunders the Caribbean and abducts a young woman, using a deserted, cursed, and almost impossible to find island as a base of operations, while the other is known as the devil of the seas and kills and destroys due to his own love for another woman). Ghost pirates? Vodoo? The only pirate story to ever have that was the book I mentioned.
I mean, you'd have to be pretty dumb or in complete denial to blatantly avoid the "similarities". |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
The dog with the key in the jail |
This I do remember from the Disney ride. It's been a while though, I wonder how many other little nods Monkey Island made to the Pirates of the Caribbean ride?
Also, this predates them both:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman
And Robert Louis Stevenson's classic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island
And numerous other archetypal Pirate lore and associations. They both borrowed heavily from sources, and paid homage to one another, as popular genre fiction is wont to do. Though I am biased, too, because Monkey Island was ing fun, and the Pirates movies were kind of underwhelming.
I like this Ron Gilbert gem:
| quote: | | and let's be honest, if I'd thought of the squid tentacles for a beard, I would have done that. |
Well yeah. But it's a stupid thing to argue about.
Can't we all just agree that Muppet Treasure Island was the finest work of pirate fiction of all time? Right? Of course right. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
This I do remember from the Disney ride. It's been a while though, I wonder how many other little nods Monkey Island made to the Pirates of the Caribbean ride?
Also, this predates them both:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Dutchman
And Robert Louis Stevenson's classic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island
And numerous other archetypal Pirate lore and associations. They both borrowed heavily from sources, and paid homage to one another, as popular genre fiction is wont to do. Though I am biased, too, because Monkey Island was ing fun, and the Pirates movies were kind of underwhelming.
I like this Ron Gilbert gem:
Well yeah. But it's a stupid thing to argue about.
Can't we all just agree that Muppet Treasure Island was the finest work of pirate fiction of all time? Right? Of course right. |
Didn't know or remember the dog with key, so thanks for pointing that out and these are valid influences; You basically can't write a pirate story without infringing on treasure island, and the flying dutchman is a re-hash of viking folk tales anyway.
You write a story about romans without mentioning rome, but even so the points I've raised still stands.
The characters in POTC were ripped, by the same script and storyline writer from MI. There's just too many crossovers. Watch that video I posted - that audio is the opening segment of MI and they've been able to ADR against exact lines in the film, by those same characters.
Lucas himself said MI will now never be made in to a film as POTC was the film, albeit not his vision of it. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Monkey Island was a postmodern comic mash-up of pirate tropes and influences, so you can't complain if POTC goes one further and mashes up the mash up.
LucasArts used to be so ing good in the early '90s. The Star Wars games were brilliant as well back then. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| I played through Dark Forces just a few months back. :3 |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Monkey Island was a postmodern comic mash-up of pirate tropes and influences, so you can't complain if POTC goes one further and mashes up the mash up.
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You're right about the influences, but I can complain. The film's main plot is ripped from MI. So are the vast majority of characters, and frankly were no where near as good or as funny as the games.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
LucasArts used to be so ing good in the early '90s. The Star Wars games were brilliant as well back then. |
Damn straight. DoTT, Loom, Indiana jones, The Dig and the SW games were nothing short of amazing. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
You're right about the influences, but I can complain. The film's main plot is ripped from MI. So are the vast majority of characters, and frankly were no where near as good or as funny as the games. |
I haven't yet heard a parallel given for Jack Sparrow, the character who practically carries the whole franchise. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
I have an inkling that as much as we'd like to idealize what a "true" Monkey Island movie could have been, they would find some way to it up to the point where it was basically Pirates of the Caribbean anyway. Snappy writing and one-liners can sometimes make for a great screenplay, but the humour of Monkey Island had a lot more to do with the interactivity and various permutations of applying items and such to your environment; the way the writers predicted how you might "misuse" the game in certain ways and in turn offered hilarious results was what made the game such a blast, if you ask me.
It's been too long! |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Will and Jack together make up Guybrush
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Taken from another forum:
"On one hand, he's a very clean cut, likable guy who only wants to be with the girl of his dreams. On the other hand, he is an incredibly selfish anti-hero and commits numerous crimes for the most trivial reason. Yet it's impossible not to like him and he has his own limits and a conscience. There are simply some lengths he will never resort to".
They split Guybrush in to two people |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
I have an inkling that as much as we'd like to idealize what a "true" Monkey Island movie could have been, they would find some way to it up to the point where it was basically Pirates of the Caribbean anyway. Snappy writing and one-liners can sometimes make for a great screenplay, but the humour of Monkey Island had a lot more to do with the interactivity and various permutations of applying items and such to your environment; the way the writers predicted how you might "misuse" the game in certain ways and in turn offered hilarious results was what made the game such a blast, if you ask me.
It's been too long! |
I agree with this, and it's why Lucas said there will never be a MI film now. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
They literally split Guybrush in to two people, |
Sounds messy. They must have edited that scene out of the version I saw. What you've described is also the most obvious way to write a pirate as a good guy, ever, and doesn't really contain the gloriously tipsy essence of Johnny Depp's performance that makes the character so enjoyable.
EDIT: I can understand the ire from a fan of something cult-ish that has been turned into something mega-bucks, but my point still stands. You can't gleefully steal from everything and then whine when someone does it back to you. I see it more of a case of typical postmodernist referential dialogue, the way remakes, reboots and sequels of iconic stuff start referencing things that referenced them, creating a framework of knowing in-jokes and winks to the camera. |
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