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Edward Snowden (pg. 5)
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| Syntonic |
| Woah dude chill, i'm not against having these databases as they do stop crazy s. All I was saying was, why are people shocked by this old information. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
it isn't old information. Perhaps it deals with information that was leaked by one source but how credible is one source. Is it shocking ? I don't really see how that is relevant. It adds a bit of credibility when you start talking about these sorts of issues which were really for a long time the domain of david icke fans. The more data that comes out makes it harder to just sweep under the rug. It is easy to smear one source. But when you have all these different events that corroborate the same thing, that is somewhat significant at least to me.
I'm running 2 16 000 btu air conditionners. I'm very chill. |
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| Syntonic |
| By old news, i meant the part of compiling metadata on americans and other countries |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Why? I, for one, am glad he published all this, and I believe Brazil should consider giving Snowden his asylum after we found out the NSA has been spying on us too.
We're hardly a haven for terrorists, or hostile in any way. |
Did you not know that we're spying on you before that was posted? We're spying on everyone we can - and we're not the only ones. All major countries engage in large, broad, systematic spying.
Snowden hasn't done anything to deserve asylum. He deserves a long prison sentence. He hasn't done a single thing that is heroic, good, noble, or helpful.
| quote: | Originally posted by Syntonic
What exactly did he do wrong to deserve what violent criminals get? If you want to get peoples' attention nowadays this is how you gotta do it, right? I just watched the interview for the first time and while I don't totally agree with him on everything, why is informing people a bad thing? |
1) Being a traitor is worse than being a violent criminal; 2) he didn't inform people of anything illegal, bad, or unnecessary.
| quote: | Originally posted by SherlockCrash
People don't want to know about how bad things are. They want to live in their cozy little bubble were they can trust the government without giving it a second thought.
People are going far to trick themselves in to believing that everything is OK. Most people behave like a little girl, assaulted by their boyfriend. Take it, again and again and again.
And then take it out on someone who are trying to help. |
Come back to reality. |
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| zGoogleman |
What he released wasn't top-secret. I think-I pray-when someone like Hal comes out into the open about the real top-secret stuff. Like how the government commits fraud against its own individual citizens to steal from them outside of normal taxes and fines. That day, I would expect to see nothing but the real truth of how ed up the government is.
An experience of mine so that I know?
They say that counter-terrorists operators are suppose to raise capital for the government through illegal means. You know what that means? If you don't, I feel bad for you. A lot of the operators I have met, have literally a messed up conscious and zero apathy for the commoner like your average lawmaker. I guess when you are earning half a million dollars a year in cash and non-cash benefits and you got to where you are thanks to your parents. You tend on losing sight of things, especially when you are told you deserve this even though you don't.
I had a conversation with one of them and all he could say was, know your rights. you! You guys are worse than terrorists from the Middle East. |
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| Spacey Orange |
| how the hell can anyone maintain, with a straight face, the position that everyone knows that they are spied on, and yet advocate his prosecution for treason for releasing information of which everyone is supposed to be already aware. must take a lot of practice. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Did you not know that we're spying on you before that was posted? We're spying on everyone we can - and we're not the only ones. All major countries engage in large, broad, systematic spying. |
I suspected you'd spy on potential terrorists and strategic politicians, aided by our own intelligence agencies in the former case, but going all the way and spying on everyone sounds not just incredibly complicated but massively pointless and provocative. It's gathering data for the sake of it - and without the consent of those we let protect us.
Also, suspecting you're being spied on and being fully aware of it are two different things - just like there's a difference between suspecting there are lifeforms and providing details about their existence. I'm going to have to disagree with you here: I do believe this will be helpful in the long run, as government and the general public alike get to know more about how intelligence agencies work. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by zGoogleman
What he released wasn't top-secret. I. |
are there any public disclosures about Tempora and Boundless Informant prior to Snowden. And if there was, was it smeared to the point that it as forgotten ? How is this information of governments overstepping their limits , perhaps legal but at least among the local operations revealed completely un constitutional. He should be protected as a whistle blower. I think what he did regardless of motivation somehow patriotic and to charge him as a traitor absolutely silly.
the long term consequences of sending him to jail are pretty significant. I really don't understand why anyone would want to punish him other than acting out USA's insane lust for revenge. The people are pathological in their need to see people get their due without thinking about what is best for everyone. It is some kind of expression of USA's pandemic personality disorder of enjoying watching people suffer. schadenfreude really needs a term to describe it and how it applies in a rather unique way in the USA. |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I suspected you'd spy on potential terrorists and strategic politicians, aided by our own intelligence agencies in the former case, but going all the way and spying on everyone sounds not just incredibly complicated but massively pointless and provocative. It's gathering data for the sake of it - and without the consent of those we let protect us.
Also, suspecting you're being spied on and being fully aware of it are two different things - just like there's a difference between suspecting there are lifeforms and providing details about their existence. I'm going to have to disagree with you here: I do believe this will be helpful in the long run, as government and the general public alike get to know more about how intelligence agencies work. |
It's only provocative when people like Greenwald present it in negative ways to make people angry. We collect all sorts of data so that we can find connections and patterns through it. The NSA isn't watching you look at big-breasted women or linguistic journals. They can't spare the time or the s to do any of that .
I definitely think that we need to have more conversations about national security and intelligence - I just don't think the way Snowden and Greenwald are jump-starting the conversation is helpful. It's just going to cause problems. |
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| Lews |
Giving Snowden freedom to just do this sends a message to every government employee that if they don't like a certain LEGAL program, they can just run away to Asia, leak classified information to the media and the world, and everything will be okay.
He broke the law. He's an egotistical traitor. He deserves to be brought to justice. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
It's only provocative when people like Greenwald present it in negative ways to make people angry. We collect all sorts of data so that we can find connections and patterns through it. The NSA isn't watching you look at big-breasted women or linguistic journals. They can't spare the time or the s to do any of that . |
It... isn't? Gutted. I really needed their help getting stuff behind paywalls and dead torrents :( :p
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
I definitely think that we need to have more conversations about national security and intelligence - I just don't think the way Snowden and Greenwald are jump-starting the conversation is helpful. It's just going to cause problems. |
Hmm... how else could they start it though? I'm all for suggestions, really. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
It... isn't? Gutted. I really needed their help getting stuff behind paywalls and dead torrents :( :p
Hmm... how else could they start it though? I'm all for suggestions, really. |
slavery was legal. That is a poor reason not to divulge information. Legal but kinda unconstitutional and it is something the country needs to confront. Unfortunately it seems people can be side tracked like confused kittens placing all the emphasis on the wrong issue. The people that run these things must be laughing at how idiotic and prone to simple subterfuge their population have become.
Would you be saying the same thing if the information was about black sites around the USA were americans are held without being charged despite if it was legal because they added a few paragraphs to an unrelated bill that would be uncontested. The same logic applies to both yet i doubt you would feel the same. What the government does is unconstitutional but you morons trick yourselves into thinking it is fine because well, if you have nothing to hide , it doesn't matter. Well if you aren't a terrorist, then those camps are no worry and someone leaking that little secret should be charged as a traitor. Well guantanamo is a pretty good case study in how stringent the USA seems to be regarding guilt and just cause. I would be pretty ing paranoid. I would definitely not waste time focusing on snowden but on the actual issues that matter.
There is a problem when your government is starting to pay royalties to Orwell's beneficiaries. I would say the constitution is pretty ing clear and that he should be covered by the whistle blower act. |
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