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::::::::. **** TA DJ Challenge Series - Genre Challenge 7 (COMPLETE) **** .:::::::: (pg. 11)
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| Sand Leaper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bierheld
It sounds different and it's made by Italians? I could give pointers |
Please do. I fail to see the big difference between a Gaetano Parisio record and any of the Swedish producers he shared the roster with at Drumcode around the turn of the millenium, for example. |
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| ziptnf |
I'm not so sure Italian techno is a significant enough genre to be allowed. I'm still not sold on NY Hard House, and I'm not sure I'm sold on this either.
Can we get some more clarifications here? Do these genres have enough content to be acceptable? |
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| Bierheld |
Hmm, I've searched around a bit and to be honest I'm indeed having some trouble coming up with a good example as to how exactly it's different from other techno. Then again that wasn't exactly something I considered with this choice in the first place.
I had some quirky minimal and dirty swingy techno in mind from the likes of italo business at around 2008 or these days with midi mood records. There's also stuff from the nineties when it was apparently enough of it's own thing to be mentioned on ishkur's guide, but I don't know too much about that of the top of my head.
Does it matter much for this challenge though? Distinct techno sub-genres from beyond the 00's when the amount of material really started blowing up are hard to define, you'll find parallels everywhere. I just wanted to add a little twist to an otherwise fairly standard submission. If the contestant just makes a standard booming techhouse affair with vaguely Italian themes and artists then I'm fine with that. I'll give it some more thought and see what I do about it tomorrow however because I do understand the critique. |
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| Mr Game+Watch |
Well, for the hard house sound, Louie DeVito's NYC Underground Party series were some of the biggest selling mix comps back in the day. They have some commercial trance on it but a lot of it was the sound associated with "NY Hard House". This song was one of the most popular examples of the NY hard house sound and was pretty successful over much of the US back in the late 90's. It combined elements of tribal, trance, progressive and big room and usually had diva vocals and/or extended drumroll sequences. Popular with guidos and the gay/circuit scene. It's certainly a more viable genre than Italian Techno IMO.
DJs: Jonathan Peters, Johnny Vicious, Junior Vasquez, Razor N Guido |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bierheld
Hmm, I've searched around a bit and to be honest I'm indeed having some trouble coming up with a good example as to how exactly it's different from other techno. |
Then that's difficult for me to support. Genres need to be relatively distinct, this isn't a challenge for specific labels or artists in a particular region. This is about a genre that can stand on its own and doesn't need to be pigeonholed into a handful of artists. I'm nixing this. Pick something else.
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr Game+Watch
Well, for the hard house sound, Louie DeVito's NYC Underground Party series were some of the biggest selling mix comps back in the day. They have some commercial trance on it but a lot of it was the sound associated with "NY Hard House". This song was one of the most popular examples of the NY hard house sound and was pretty successful over much of the US back in the late 90's. It combined elements of tribal, trance, progressive and big room and usually had diva vocals and/or extended drumroll sequences. Popular with guidos and the gay/circuit scene. It's certainly a more viable genre than Italian Techno IMO.
DJs: Jonathan Peters, Johnny Vicious, Junior Vasquez, Razor N Guido |
Like I said with Bierheld, we should try to avoid regional genres unless the genre is associated with a much wider and distinct sound. What makes NY Hard House different from regular Hard House, besides the region it was produced in? If we can't assert a clear difference between the two, then we should just stick with Hard House and remove the NY label (bonus points for anyone who goes with the original NY sound though). |
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| Bierheld |
Well, the smaller a genre is the more distinct it's going to be right? The entries here vary enormously in ambiguity. How is funky breaks different from other breakbeat music? How is psychill different?
I'm unfamiliar with the etiquette here when it comes to picking genres here and I'm certainly not someone who can explain and rationalize the confines of every genre, there's always an element of interpretation.
I think NY Hard house is valid enough, depending on what you take from it. If you just interpret it as early house with loud 909 kicks then you can quite comfortably make a mix that doesn't involve a single NY artist I'd think. It's just handy to make the distinction.
I mean, you've apparently done a chicago/detroid house mix for this challenge before ziptnf, Did you find that too constrictive?
I will be picking a different genre by the way, but I find it an interesting discussion. |
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| Mr Game+Watch |
I think NY hard house is definitely distinct from Chicago hard house (which tends to focus more on a distorted 909 and - DJ Godfather, DJ Bam Bam, DJ Deeon) and the more fast-paced UK stuff (Lisa Lashes, BK)...
Wish Scoops and Mark Anthony were in this thread, they could back me up on how huge this sound was back in the day... |
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| 2techs |
| Vetoing a genre just contradicts the whole point of this challenge. Plus, NY hard house is as legit of a genre as you could possibly get. Anyway, I'm officially out. |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bierheld
Well, the smaller a genre is the more distinct it's going to be right? The entries here vary enormously in ambiguity. How is funky breaks different from other breakbeat music? How is psychill different?
I'm unfamiliar with the etiquette here when it comes to picking genres here and I'm certainly not someone who can explain and rationalize the confines of every genre, there's always an element of interpretation. |
Well sure, but there's a line. You don't want to be too specific, nor do you want to be too general. "World fusion psychedelic" is way too micro-niche and "Techno" is way too general.
Also, I don't know how you didn't answer your own question there: funky breaks are funky breaks. The sound is distinct and obvious. Psychill is an entire sound library with hundreds of artists. Those are perfectly acceptable genres (with "funky" breaks being more of a guideline to the expected sound rather than a defined style).
| quote: | | I think NY Hard house is valid enough, depending on what you take from it. If you just interpret it as early house with loud 909 kicks then you can quite comfortably make a mix that doesn't involve a single NY artist I'd think. It's just handy to make the distinction. |
Yeah, and that's why I'm giving NY Hard house a chance, because it seems to be distinct enough, with enough examples and sound profiles to be valid.
| quote: | | I mean, you've apparently done a chicago/detroid house mix for this challenge before ziptnf, Did you find that too constrictive? |
Not really. It wasn't exactly easy, and I'm sure Adam would have redefined his description today if he had the chance. After posting my mix, he reviewed with the note saying "All I was really aiming for with this mix was the American house sound: diva vocals, horns, funk, disco-influences". Looking back, it would have been easier to name the genre "American house" rather than Chicago/Detroit.
The issue here is that Italian techno can't be separated from the other techno styles, and that's why I don't think it can be accepted.
| quote: | Originally posted by 2techs
Vetoing a genre just contradicts the whole point of this challenge. Plus, NY hard house is as legit of a genre as you could possibly get. Anyway, I'm officially out. |
The purpose of the veto was to get rid of a genre that is least liked by a majority of the members. If 90% of the contestants dislike a genre, and someone gets it, they are less likely to do their mix.
Can't please everyone though. Sorry you don't want to participate. |
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| Bierheld |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr Game+Watch
I think NY hard house is definitely distinct from Chicago hard house (which tends to focus more on a distorted 909 and - DJ Godfather, DJ Bam Bam, DJ Deeon) and the more fast-paced UK stuff (Lisa Lashes, BK)...
Wish Scoops and Mark Anthony were in this thread, they could back me up on how huge this sound was back in the day... |
Yet there were so many huge sounds back then. If I had not been part of an internet community which is heavily America-centric I would never have been able to make heads or tails out of this entry. That's the problem with regional genres I suppose. |
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| Mr.Mystery |
| Where exactly would one find NY hard house if he gets assigned such a genre? |
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| Bierheld |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Well sure, but there's a line. You don't want to be too specific, nor do you want to be too general. "World fusion psychedelic" is way too micro-niche and "Techno" is way too general.
Also, I don't know how you didn't answer your own question there: |
Because I wasn't asking a question but exemplifying my point about interpretability. Adjectives like "funky" or "psychadelic" mean very little by themselves, but we have a clear frame of reference to connect a certain sound to them making them obvious picks.
I'm just trying to explain the logic behind my pick. I figured if NY hardhouse is simply an interpretation of a genre that was held by people that lived in the NY area, then Italian Techno can be regarded as a similar concept. I just didn't factor in the distinctness because I find it a hard thing to put my finger on at times. And you can tell I'm not the only one having difficulties with providing a clear explanation for it. Again it depends on what sort of music you've been exposed to over the years.
If you can't figure it out you can always just fall back on copying whatever the artists that championed the scene were doing. |
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