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Hello Europeans, how are those muslim immigrants treating you? (pg. 10)
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
alphastar is full on nutter
lol |
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| AlphaStarred |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Once again, I wish I could say it's this simple: Pillaging was a common way of life for many tribes in the Arab peninsula, a habit that pre-dates Mohammed. Islam just granted Arabs the political unity to be stronger and, instead of focusing on infighting, they spread outwards... |
Oh, it's more than just "spreading outward," dude.
"Mohammed went to Medina and became a politician and a warlord. After 2 years in Medina, every Jew was murdered, enslaved, or exiled. He was involved in an event of violence on the average of every 6 weeks for the last 9 years of his life. Mohammed died without a single enemy left standing."
- from the same book I've noted above.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Should global domination be a goal of Islam... |
It is, Lira. Just take a look at what I've posted. It may not be the goal of all Muslims, but it certainly is a fundamental tenet of Islam. Let's not forget about the surrounding Arab nations trying to invade Israel in the 6-day war. Most of them still literally want to "drive Israel into the sea."
Funny thing is, I learned about the 5 pillars of Islam in a history course back in high school. The 5 pillars were the only thing we studied, nothing about what should be done with unbelievers, which is what the majority of Islamic "holy" text is about.
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
alphastar is full on nutter
lol |
lol |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
It is, Lira. Just take a look at what I've posted. It may not be the goal of all Muslims, but it certainly is a fundamental tenet of Islam. Let's not forget about the surrounding Arab nations trying to invade Israel in the 6-day war. Most of them still literally want to "drive Israel into the sea."
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The book "Sharia Law for Non-Muslims", which I believe is the bit you're telling me to read, was written by a PhD in physics and maths, with no apparent background in comparative theology. It doesn't seem he has a good grasp of Islam, opting rather to crunch numbers without any sort of guidance. It doesn't seem like he knows what's he's talking about.
As for driving Israel into the sea... Well, there's more to it, as I'm sure you know. That's hardly a "random country" in the history of the Middle East.
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Funny thing is, I learned about the 5 pillars of Islam in a history course back in high school. The 5 pillars were the only thing we studied, nothing about what should be done with unbelievers, which is what the majority of Islamic "holy" text is about. |
That's because Islam is not just their holy text. If all descriptions of Islam you see don't talk that much about the text, then that's a hint that you shouldn't be focusing exclusively on that, wouldn't you agree? |
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| AlphaStarred |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
The book "Sharia Law for Non-Muslims", which I believe is the bit you're telling me to read, was written by a PhD in physics and maths, with no apparent background in comparative theology. It doesn't seem he has a good grasp of Islam, opting rather to crunch numbers without any sort of guidance. It doesn't seem like he knows what's he's talking about. |
Does it matter who wrote it, if the information is accurate? The quotations from the Trilogy of Islamic "holy" texts are pretty unequivocal, wouldn't you agree? I can also post a video from an Islamic scholar who outlines the same principles on an interview on Muslim television. Moreover, I can share the video about the son of one of the Hamas leaders - who did study the Koran in the original language for many years - and show you the prevailing ideology contained therein.
| quote: | | As for driving Israel into the sea... Well, there's more to it, as I'm sure you know. That's hardly a "random country" in the history of the Middle East. |
Right you are. It's the only non-Muslim country there.
| quote: | | That's because Islam is not just their holy text. If all descriptions of Islam you see don't talk that much about the text, then that's a hint that you shouldn't be focusing exclusively on that, wouldn't you agree? |
What should I be focusing on, then? We can always focus on the history of Islam and how it spread. But they generally don't teach that in school, either. Sharia law is a fundamental principle of Islam, just like Halacha is in Judaism. It's silly to conveniently ignore the majority of the text, while picking only the good parts. That's not Islam. Moderate and peaceful Arabs are not true Muslims lol. I guess it's no wonder why the son of the Hamas leader converted to another religion. He was one of those Muslims who actually studied Islam in-depth and realized what Islam is really about. Not to mention the virulent memeplex that he was brainwashed into, while growing up. |
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| soulstar606 |
| quote: | | Under Sharia law: - There is no freedom of religion - There is no freedom of speech - There is no freedom of thought - There is no freedom of artistic expression - There is no freedom of the press |
Under modern Western European Law (influenced by Jewish People), it is illegal to question certain historical events, it is illegal to question the authenticity of specific events or face imprisonment if you do
in these countries:
Austria
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[
Belgium
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year
Czech Republic
§ 261a The person who publicly denies, puts in doubt, approves or tries to justify nazi or communist genocide or other crimes of nazis or communists will be punished by prison of 6 months to 3 years.
France
Art 9. – As an amendment to Article 24 of the law of July 29, 1881 on the freedom of the press, article 24 (a) is as follows written: <
Germany
Whosoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in section 6 (1) of the Code of International Criminal Law, in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be liable to imprisonment not exceeding five years or a fine
Hungary
In 2011, the first man was charged with Holocaust denial in Budapest. The Court sentenced the man to 18 months in prison, suspended for three years, and probation. He also had to visit either Budapest's memorial museum, Auschwitz or Yad Vashem in Jerusalem. He chose his local Holocaust Memorial Center and had to make three visits in total and record his observations.[39]
Israel
Prohibition of Denial of Holocaust 2. A person who, in writing or by word of mouth, publishes any statement denying or diminishing the proportions of acts committed in the period of the Nazi regime, which are crimes against the Jewish people or crimes against humanity, with intent to defend the perpetrators of those acts or to express sympathy or identification with them, shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of five years.
Luxembourg
.anyone who has contested, minimised, justified or denied the existence of war crimes or crimes against humanity as defined in the statutes of the International Military Tribunal of 8 August 1945 or the existence of a genocide as defined by the Act of 8 August 1985. A complaint must be lodged by the person against whom the offence was committed (victim or association) in order for proceedings to be brought, Article 450 of the Criminal Code, Act of 19 July 1997.[46]
Romania
Article 6. – Denial of the Holocaust in public, or to the effects thereof is punishable by imprisonment from 6 months to 5 years and the loss of certain rights
Date Name Country where the sentence was pronounced Sentence
September 1987/June 1999 Jean-Marie Le Pen France, Germany fines of €183,000 (1987) and €6,000 (1999)[66]
Feb. 27, 1998 Roger Garaudy France 6 months' imprisonment (suspended), ₣240,000 (€37,500) fine[67]
Jul. 21, 1998 Jürgen Graf Switzerland 15 months' imprisonment (fled Switzerland to avoid sentence)[68]
Jul. 21, 1998 Gerhard Förster Switzerland 12 months' imprisonment, disgorgement[69]
April 8, 1999 Fredrick Töben Australia 7 months' imprisonment Mannheim, Germany – retrial – 2011 indefinitely stayed by judge Dr Meinerzhagen. October 1 – November 19, 2008, London, extradition to Mannheim, Germany, on European Arrest Warrant issued by Germany, failed. August 15 – November 12, 2009, Adelaide, Australia – for contempt of court because he refused to stop questioning the Holocaust's 3 basics: 6 million, systematic state extermination, gas chambers as murder weapon.
May 27, 1999 Jean Plantin France 6 months' imprisonment (suspended), fine, damages[70]
Apr. 11, 2000 Gaston-Armand Amaudruz Switzerland 1 year's imprisonment, damages[71]
Feb. 20, 2006 David Irving Austria 3 years' imprisonment.[72] Released and deported after serving 13 months.
Mar. 15, 2006 Germar Rudolf Germany 2½ years' imprisonment[73]
Oct. 3, 2006 Robert Faurisson France €7,500 fine, 3 months' probation[74]
Feb. 15, 2007 Ernst Zündel Germany 5 years' imprisonment[75]
Nov. 8, 2007 Vincent Reynouard France 1 year's imprisonment and a fine of 10,000 euros[76]
Jan. 14, 2008 Wolfgang Fröhlich Austria 6 years' imprisonment (third offence)[77]
Jan. 15, 2008 Sylvia Stolz Germany 3½ years' imprisonment[78]
Mar. 11, 2009 Horst Mahler Germany 5 years' imprisonment[79]
Oct. 23, 2009 Dirk Zimmerman Germany 9 months' imprisonment[80]
Oct. 27, 2009 Richard Williamson Germany €12,000 fine[81] (later overturned)[citation needed]
Jan. 31, 2013 Gyorgy Nagy Hungary 18-month suspended jail sentence [82]
Feb. 11, 2015 Vincent Reynouard France 2 years' imprisonment [83]
Nov. 12, 2015 Ursula Haverbeck Germany 10 months' imprisonment [84]
And when you cant question certain things because they are protected by laws...you are no better than living under Sharia Law. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Does it matter who wrote it, if the information is accurate? |
It does because it isn't accurate and he isn't even aware of it.
He reads the Quran like a protestant would read the Bible (itself a mistake) and then he draws many of his conclusions from his models (yet another mistake). In order to point out how absurd his project is, let me say something that makes sense mathematically but should be pure nonsense:
- We share 50% of our DNA with bananas;
- 1 out of 4 humans is a descendent of Genghis Khan;
- Genghis Khan is 200% banana.
Mathematically, it is a valid conclusion, but you don't even need to think about it to see it's nonsense. The same with that book.
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Right you are. It's the only non-Muslim country there. |
Not really. It's the only country whose population was transplanted, for the most part, to the region, from other parts of the globe. There are non-Muslim communities in the Middle East and North Africa, which may not have political independence, but aren't seen as "enemies" the way some Arabs see Israelis as enemies.
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
Moderate and peaceful Arabs are not true Muslims lol. |
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. If you take only extremists to be the true Muslims, there's little room for debate, I guess. |
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| Jon_Snow |
What are the chances that a Brazilian would try to win an argument using a banana?
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| Meat187 |
Why real scientists make fun of humanities graduates:
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
- We share 50% of our DNA with bananas;
- 1 out of 4 humans is a descendent of Genghis Khan;
- Genghis Khan is 200% banana.
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:p |
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| AlphaStarred |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
It does because it isn't accurate and he isn't even aware of it.
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What isn't accurate about it? |
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| djshire |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
- We share 50% of our DNA with bananas;
- 1 out of 4 humans is a descendent of Genghis Khan;
- Genghis Khan is 200% banana.
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LOL |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by AlphaStarred
The problem with you is that you fail to see the bigger picture here. The latest wave of attacks and harassment against women have been from your beloved refugees. More will likely follow, and I'm sure some jihadis will also slip through, just like during the Paris attacks. And let's not forget about what's going on in Sweden, as per the OP. I guess none of this is an issue for you, as it's only the "extremist minority," eh? As far as the policy on letting the refugees in, I agree with GodKing5. |
That's the smaller picture. That's the immediate future. The bigger picture is that Europe's future lies with immigrants. As JBJ pointed out earlier, white western Europeans are an endangered species. The continent is growing older and not reproducing enough. Europe needs a young work-base and immigration is where it will come from: from Muslim countries, from African countries, from poorer Eastern European countries. These people will come and the continent needs them.
The real issue is integration. The challenge facing these countries is to successfully integrate their immigrant populations, which is going to a difficult process which will take more than one generation to really yield results. Your frightened scare-mongering about a few criminals, rapists and extremists is the small-minded, short-term view.
Despite your silly rhetoric about my "beloved refugees", I actually agree that Islam has a number of very worrying in-built tendencies that aren't compatible with liberal European social values, tendencies that give rise to violent extremism and oppressive patriarchy. However, the biggest problem with Islam is the one RANN mentioned - the conflation of church and state. Most of these refugees and immigrants are being imported direct from Muslim countries where the law of the land is Islam and there is no escape from it. These people are essentially indoctrinated. In my personal experience of knowing and working alongside Muslims who have grown up in the UK, they are a hell of a lot more moderate. Most religious people have some theological belief but they are not hardline adherents to every strict tenet of their creed. Muslims are human beings as well, and put them in a country where Sharia Law cannot be enforced on a national level and they tend to act a lot more like normal people.
Perhaps my country has just been more successful with integration than places like France or Sweden. Our record is still not perfect, which is why radicalised British Muslims are still going to Syria, but what I see every day in this country leaves me unafraid of Muslims and confident they can integrate perfectly well into Western society. Radical Islam in undeniably a major problem in the world, but it's one that can be subdued with proper integration strategies at our end and proper foreign policy at the other end.
As Lira has pointed out, Germany didn't have a great deal of control over the situation when the refugees arrived, and neither did the rest of Europe. I seriously do not know what some of you people in this thread would have advocated. I think you would have preferred it if these people drowned en masse in the Mediterranean or starved unattended in makeshift camps. The fact is that these refugees fled a war-torn country and were will willing to bear severe hardship and risk their lives to do it. Most of them are completely harmless and will go on to benefit the countries where they are re-situated.
There are always going to be social problems when millions of people from less-developed countries with different social and cultural values suddenly arrive in progressive, liberal and affluent nations. The bigger picture is whether Muslims will still be causing these problems in 30 years time. Then we can say there's an inherent problem. Everything else is growing pains, and a whole bunch of intolerant and frightened white people wringing their hands. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| And if you think I'm some bleeding-heart liberal... if nefardec were still here, she'd doubtless be getting outraged at my comment about Muslims acting "more like normal people." |
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