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European Politics Thread: Netherlands, France, Germany, Great Britain, and Narnia 2017 (pg. 9)
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| Lews |
Amusingly, it's people like you who make people like me more conservative, thus actually, in all probability, making things worse for yourself and those like you.
Though of course you don't really care, as long as people like me suffer, since all you care about is equality, not actual general well-being.
Alas.
I should probably stop responding to your messages, seeing as how they're so ill informed and completely stupid. We'll see if my hubris allows that, or if I'll feel compelled to continue to point out just how worthless and stupid you and your ideas are. |
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| wotyzoid |
| Whatever helps you sleep at night. Enjoy your privilege. |
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| Trance-M |
I think at this point you can still question if it's the best time to start building those massive windfarms at sea.
Something for sure needs to be done, but maybe it's better to wait for bigger steps which can bring better results a much shorter period of time: https://ecoswing.eu/project
Same for massive lithium-ion battery storage. |
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| Lews |
| Again, Kenny, I just want to ask you, what is it you do to improve the world? |
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| wotyzoid |
| I already told you, man. I think you've made it pretty clear that you have no actual intention of debating ideas, just ridiculing mine and calling me names. |
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| Lira |
I'd like to thank Groenlinks for helping us have a 100-post long debate that isn't about American politics.
You're talking about them, right? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
What? I thought we were talking about taxation and morality. |
um, no. it was about pollution from the very first page. you even posted a nice big CO2 chart for us in post #8.
this is the operative sentence i originally quoted:
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
If you look at the scale of what is required to stand a chance, the main culprits are not regular people living their everyday lives... |
and you go on to blame various industries. it should be painfully obvious that these various industries are only in existence because of "regular people" and their thirst for energy, burgers and consumer products. so while any single company would clearly create more CO2 than any individual, that doesn't abrogate our responsibility for their actions.
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
It's very easy to brush off what I'm saying as commie tangents and not address any of it, |
had i been interested in engaging the ism you've tried to shoe-horn into this conversation, i would have quoted something other than the above.
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
but i'm just refuting what you said. Where is the nobility in turning a profit? |
my quote re nobility was (again) in reference to your apparent belief that private corporations are responsible for all the environmental harm in the world, while us 99-percenters get away scot-free (which is funny, given that most of us would be in the top 10%).
i was merely comparing the self-interested actions of a power generation business, with the selfish desires of its customers (ie us). you then went on some irrelevant class warfare tangents, which have not addressed my central point from the start- why are the actions of business qualitatively different from the actions of the customers it supplies. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
No faith in human beings. Of course their prime minister had to entice private companies to build the things, but the gornment still bought the lines of the grid, which are publicly owned. How else are you supposed to get things done under capitalism? |
regulation?
| quote: |
However, in 2008, ten northeastern states in the USA (Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont) implemented a carbon cap and trade system which will reduce their carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from the power sector by 10% by 2018 in the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI)...
All in all, through the first two years of the system, the ten states generated $789 million through the auctioning and direct sale of CO2 emissions allowances. Each state developed its own plan for investing those funds, but overall, 52% was used for energy efficiency programs, 14% for energy bill payment assistance, including assistance to low-income ratepayers, and 11% to accelerate deployment of renewable energy technologies. |
https://skepticalscience.com/real-w...eigh-costs.html
| quote: |
Australia’s greenhouse gas emissions dropped 1.4% in the second full year of the carbon price – the largest recorded annual decrease in the past decade. |
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...on-tax-kicks-in |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
why are the actions of business qualitatively different from the actions of the customers it supplies. |
I answered it when you asked the first time, you just don't wanna accept my answer. Profit margins. You don't drive to work for profit margins necessarily, neither do you buy McDonalds for profit margins. I'm all for the legislation. You're not gonna get a disagreement out of me with that kind of stuff. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
I answered it when you asked the first time, you just don't wanna accept my answer. |
because it's a answer that doesn't make sense.
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
Profit margins. |
you arbitrarily designate the self-interested basis of "profits" as somehow worse than the self-interested basis of consumer behaviour. sometimes on a ridiculously hot day i like to go for a long drive just so i can pump the aircon. but somehow that's subaru's and BP's fault?
the fact that energy companies work for profits has no relationship to the impact their co2 pollution has on the planet. we don't use more or less energy on the basis of the economic model under which that energy is delivered; we use energy on the basis of our wants and needs vs unit price. our consumption is what drives these companies, to exclude us from the Responsibility Chain based on 'no profits' is nonsensical. |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
because it's a answer that doesn't make sense.
you arbitrarily designate the self-interested basis of "profits" as somehow worse than the self-interested basis of consumer behaviour. sometimes on a ridiculously hot day i like to go for a long drive just so i can pump the aircon. but somehow that's subaru's and BP's fault? |
If you factor in all the you's that like to go out with the ac up on a hot day Subaru and bp are exponentially responsible for providing you all with a car and oil based on your "productivity". Its not necessarily your fault or bp's or Subaru's in this case like you intend to pollute obviously. Its the faulty system.
| quote: | | the fact that energy companies work for profits has no relationship to the impact their co2 pollution has on the planet. |
You realise this an absurd statement right? That's what your capitalism is. If these companies weren't profit driven they would have never expanded at the rate they did. |
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| wotyzoid |
| Lol "I paid for this car and gas with my hard earned salary like an adult through work, and I take full responsibility for this co2 emission" |
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