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World Cup 2022 Thread (pg. 14)
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| Lira |
Dear FIFA,
Can we have a third extra time, s'il vous plaît? A Mbappé hat-trick in Messi's last game going all the way to the penalties is the early Christmas present I didn't know I wanted, but I sure as hell like every second of it.
Wowzers. |
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| Lira |
And the machines have won. EA Sports called it again.
Oh, and Argentina got a third star. |
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| OrangestO |
So here's my public apology to Mr. Messi.
You, sir, are not a . Far from it. I'm sorry.
Congratulations, Argentina, and thank you!
What a finish to the tournament! |
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| planetaryplayer |
| that was a roller coaster of a match |
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| SYSTEM-J |
I was DJing on Saturday night and then went out to another club afterwards. Didn't go to bed until 10am. Woke up just as the game was going to penalties.
Bollocks. Bollocks. Bollocks. At least I got to see Messi lift the trophy. |
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| Lews |
| I really didn't want either team to win, but I greatly enjoyed the Messi vs Mbappé battle royale. Legendary game. |
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| Lira |
I've just seen the highlights of the games I missed because of the time zone. What the hell happened between the Netherlands and Argentina? I had to watch it on mute because I was on the treadmill, but it seems a Dutchman nearly got killed and all hell broke loose :p
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
I really didn't want either team to win, but I greatly enjoyed the Messi vs Mbappé battle royale. |
Pretty much this, yeah. On the one hand, Mbappé really got us a bit irked in South America when he said we could no longer win: the fact that it's now UEFA 12 x 10 CONMEBOL, despite there being twice or three times as many slots for European countries (depends on who wins the inter=confederation playoffs), shows the competition is still pretty tight. On the other, he really was the best man on the pitch, even if Argentina were the better team overall, so by the end I was in awe by all he had achieved.
Besides, I've grown tired of all the Messi Stans and their GOAT talk. Had the penalties gone slightly different and Messi's and Mbappé's team mates achieved the exact opposite result, all else being equal, we'd now be saying Mbappé was the new Pelé or le Goaté.
Lionel is extraordinary, there's no disputing that. The greatest of all time, like, ever? Now that's overselling it a bit. |
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| planetaryplayer |
| Watching, I thought Lloris could have done better during the penalties. The first three kicks were not taken very well. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Besides, I've grown tired of all the Messi Stans and their GOAT talk. Had the penalties gone slightly different and Messi's and Mbappé's team mates achieved the exact opposite result, all else being equal, we'd now be saying Mbappé was the new Pelé or le Goaté.
Lionel is extraordinary, there's no disputing that. The greatest of all time, like, ever? Now that's overselling it a bit. |
A Brazilian refusing to admit Argentina have history's greatest player? Well, I never.
In all seriousness, this "GOAT" debate (and for the record, the horrible Americanism that is "GOAT" - I'm sure it only started getting widely used around 2017 to describe Messi and Ronaldo) is fundamentally unanswerable because football has evolved so much. In Pele's day there were no substitutions and no red or yellow cards. Much harder tackles were allowed and attacking players were less protected. The balls were made out of heavy leather. The players were physically smaller because of differing nutritional standards, which particularly affected goalkeepers. Tactics, sports science, pitch conditions... everything was primitive compared to modern standards. It is generally agreed that you can only discuss the greatest players of certain eras, and anything beyond that is just pub debate.
So what can be discussed is whether Messi is the greatest of this era. Over the last 15 years or so the battle between Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo for supremacy has swung back and forth more times than I can remember. Between 2009 and 2013 it seemed Messi was the clear winner, as he won more trophies, scored more goals and hoovered up the personal awards. Then, once Barcelona re-elected Bartomeu and their recruitment policy went to complete , they stopped being competitive in the Champions League at the exact moment when Ronaldo was spearheading Real Madrid to 4 CL trophies in five seasons. Ronaldo had lost a lot of his incredible pace and mobility and become more and more of a classic centre-forward, but his big game influence was incredible, while it became a familiar sight to see Messi wandering the pitch in despair as Barcelona suffered another horrific European collapse. Ronaldo's European Championship glory with Portugal in 2016 seemed to compound his winning influence, whereas Argentina captained by Messi fell agonisingly short again and again in finals.
Then Ronaldo left Madrid and suddenly he stopped appearing in the latter stages of the biggest club competition as well, and it felt like the two were entering the end game of their careers with incredibly similar records and without the issue ever being decided. Messi left Barcelona and finally won the Copa America with Argentina whilst simultaneously having the worst season of his career with PSG. Did that prove anything one way or another?
I've always thought Messi was by far the more naturally talented footballer, but Ronaldo often seemed the fiercer competitor, more likely to go down snarling and fighting when Messi could sometimes look like a lost little boy during those European maulings. What this World Cup has proven is that Messi is a leader, is a fighter, and can win the biggest trophies even in a relatively average team through his sheer genius. He scored in every single game bar one and laid on some absurd assists. He's answered the specific questions some people had about him as a player. For me, the debate is over now. Ronaldo isn't going to win the World Cup, or another Ballon D'or or a Champions League. Messi has achieved more at a younger age and kept pace with Ronaldo's absurd scoring rate. He's the best of the modern era, there can be no doubt. Now it's over to the likes of Kylian Mbappe and Erling Haaland to fight it out for the next 15 years. |
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| Sykonee |
| I haven't watched any of this tourney, have never really cared about soccer. But I still somehow ended up watching this finale and, yeah, Holy Cow! When even someone as apathic to the sport as I am can get that wrapped up in the drama, you know you're watching something special. |
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| Swamper |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I've always thought Messi was by far the more naturally talented footballer, but Ronaldo often seemed the fiercer competitor, more likely to go down snarling and fighting when Messi could sometimes look like a lost little boy during those European maulings. What this World Cup has proven is that Messi is a leader, is a fighter, and can win the biggest trophies even in a relatively average team through his sheer genius. He scored in every single game bar one and laid on some absurd assists. He's answered the specific questions some people had about him as a player. For me, the debate is over now. Ronaldo isn't going to win the World Cup, or another Ballon D'or or a Champions League. Messi has achieved more at a younger age and kept pace with Ronaldo's absurd scoring rate. He's the best of the modern era, there can be no doubt. Now it's over to the likes of Kylian Mbappe and Erling Haaland to fight it out for the next 15 years. |
I'm Portuguese and I agree with this. Ronaldo is fiercely competitive/focused and his ego helped bring him to a high level but I think also proved difficult to handle in the last few years (especially with national team). It can't be easy to be a younger player looking for a chance/some media attention and 95% of articles are focused on Ronaldo. I wasn't at all impressed with the drama he brought to the start of WC with that Piers interview - real ty way to up your teammates imo. Don't get me started with his sister either - a total leech/annoyance on social media. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Let's be frank: Ronaldo is a flagrant narcissist. Much like Donald Trump, it's proven to be a kind of weird superpower that's propelled him to the heights he's achieved, but as age has caught up with him it's become a massive problem. Ever since he left Madrid, every team he's played in has gotten worse with him in it because he's so immobile up front. And yet he wants to play at a club competing in the Champions League, he also wants to start every single game and he demands £500k a week as his salary. It's the same for Portugal. And much like Trump, the thing about narcissists is they just refuse to admit when the game is up. |
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