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Making the Guv accountable (pg. 13)
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
it IS safe always... |
Then why do SO MANY PEOPLE complain after every special event? |
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| LoCa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Let me start off by saying yes i do work there because im sure someone will bring it up eventually. Let me assure you though that I would be saying the exact same thing if i didnt. I only do the guv job because it's fun, i dont need the money. Also, this is my personl view and has nothing to do with management or anyone else at the club
Anyways, a few things to comment on
First off, going to the fire marshall is pointless. Why? because he is already well aware of what goes on. Obviously professional decisions have been made. Are you a fire marshall, building code inspector etc? Are you a professional in this field? Let me assure you that the club gets inspected on a regular basis and obviously the authorities see things fine.
Going to the media is another bad idea. Do you not remember what they did to our scene 4 years ago? The media hyper inflates and exaggerates stories with the intention of getting little grey haired grannies steaming mad so that they will tune in tomorrow night. It looks like its even worked on you guys. The reason city hall stopped parties at the better living centre is because the news media portrayed raves as violent gun infested druggies just waiting to shoot each other. We all know that isnt true.
May I also add, anyone who talks about pay-offs and crooked people online so openly may be flirting with liabel lawsuits from the fire marshall. Im sure the fire marshall wouldnt appreciate people openly calling him a criminal. Maybe i'll have to make a complaint to the fire marshall as well ;)
As for searches.... so people bitch about getting searched and then they bitch when somebody sneaks a weapon in and does some damage. Funny how the same people bitching about "over capacity" due to safety are the ones bitching about the searches that are designed for their safety. Which is it going to be people?
The Z103 factor. Isnt it funny how everyone on one hand blames Z103 for playing ferry corsten yet wants guv to go back to the good old days when it used to be Z103 music (granted mark used to get that stuff light years before 103 and sometimes 103 even discovered it off him) I honestly did not like the music back then.
The person who said "the guvernment used to be more underground back then"....ok now what drugs have u been taking? If anything the music is far more underground today and all the ginos that used to hang out have moved on to hiphop. I personally like the techno/prog/house/breaks that are played on regular saturdays much more than Rank 1 and Darude from the "good old days".
The crowd. Sadly this has always been a complaint of mine in Toronto. There are some true party people here but the majority are juicebags and posers and personally im happy that they no longer, for the most part come to the guv main room. The problem here is Toronto, not the club. Ive been to places where thousands of people have gone off to Digweed... im sorry but Digweed bores me... imagine these people if they reacted to a nice hard techno set from Mark Oliver.... taht being said... most of the time we have a pretty decent crowd at the guvernment.
As for the main beef about overcrowding. Honestly guys it wasnt THAT bad. Yes I agree that Labour of Love 2002 was a big problem and i can tell you that although the club has been quite busy since, there has never been a repeat of that day. Corsten was busy but i wouldnt call it over crowded. If you want to see overcrowding try going to Europe or South America where u cant even move because there are so many people. Im talking involuntary crowd surfing here. You have no idea
Oh and as for Guv making talent so much more expensive in Toronto. What a Torontocentric point of view. Whoever said this needs to get out more. Its not Guvernment that raises the DJ fees. These guys charge what they charge and it happens to be that only guvernment can pay these fees in Toronto. Remember Toronto is competing with the rest of the world where in most places a big party is considered 30,000 people and not 8000. Consider yourselves lucky that there is a place that has enough capital to be able to pay these DJs what they are asking because otherwise theyd just skip toronto. International DJs dont need Toronto when they can get their asking fees elsewhere in the world. |
even though i'm probably going to get flamed for this, i have to say i fully agree with everything you've said in your post  |
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| TDL |
| we were closer to front by the box that the chics dance on and honestly we didnt think it was that bad. we had some room to move honestly. i felt like it wasnt as crowded as it has been for some other events, but i could be wrong(which i am sure atleast one person will tell me i am after i post this) Just my opinion. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
it IS safe always... |
What do you define as safe? If there was a fire in that place and everyone was running for the exits. People WOULD get trampled, and probably die.
That is not safe. |
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| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
funny how the people bitching are probably the ones that only come once a year.
I bet the majority of you guys have no idea what goes on at the guvernment on a weekly basis |
like i just asked, please tell us what goes on on a weekly baisis.
i go for pretty much every special event, and its always crowded as hell!
so if all the posts are just opinion, and not fact. what is fact? right now you are our closest link to the guv.
please inform us of the truth, and stop telling us we are wrong. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | | Originally posted by Creamfields |
You, shut up.
| quote: | | Originally posted by Jayx1 |
As for you, I didn't have time to rip your post apart earlier and it seems like this thread has gotten a little out of control since then, but it's time to get this back on track and discuss the real issues here.
| quote: | | Let me start off by saying yes i do work there because im sure someone will bring it up eventually. Let me assure you though that I would be saying the exact same thing if i didnt. I only do the guv job because it's fun, i dont need the money. Also, this is my personl view and has nothing to do with management or anyone else at the club |
Good. Let me start off by saying that unless you've got some special information for us, the question of whether or not you work at the Guv is fully irrelevant and my opinion of your post would be the same either way.
| quote: | | First off, going to the fire marshall is pointless. Why? because he is already well aware of what goes on. Obviously professional decisions have been made. Are you a fire marshall, building code inspector etc? Are you a professional in this field? Let me assure you that the club gets inspected on a regular basis and obviously the authorities see things fine. |
And I suppose you've been privy to these inspections? You know what goes on? If you are saying the fire marshall is aware of what goes on and is permitting it, then you yourself are comitting libel (see below), since said fire marshall would have to be actively overlooking a clearly illegal situation for this to be true.
| quote: | | Going to the media is another bad idea. Do you not remember what they did to our scene 4 years ago? The media hyper inflates and exaggerates stories with the intention of getting little grey haired grannies steaming mad so that they will tune in tomorrow night. It looks like its even worked on you guys. The reason city hall stopped parties at the better living centre is because the news media portrayed raves as violent gun infested druggies just waiting to shoot each other. We all know that isnt true. |
Since when was anybody talking about going to the media? In any event, the media has wrecked things in other places by taking drug-related incidents and blowing them out of proportion. Crowd control is an entirely different issue, I doubt it would result in any Canadian equivalent of a "rave act" - just a reprimand to the Guv by forcing the legal authorities to do something about it. Some media exposure would probably be good for the Guv, now that you mention it.
| quote: | | May I also add, anyone who talks about pay-offs and crooked people online so openly may be flirting with liabel lawsuits from the fire marshall. Im sure the fire marshall wouldnt appreciate people openly calling him a criminal. Maybe i'll have to make a complaint to the fire marshall as well ;) |
I believe you mean "libel" - in any case, as I said, from what you've implied you seem to be guilty of that yourself. However, I sincerely doubt that the fire marshall is overly concerned about what people say about him on an online forum. Honestly now, if you DON'T think that any and all authorities (including police, fire marshall, higher government, etc.) employ at least a FEW crooked people, then what planet are you from? Everyone knows this and everybody talks about it, and unfortunately for your "legal" argument, truth is a valid legal defense against charges of libel.
| quote: | | As for searches.... so people bitch about getting searched and then they bitch when somebody sneaks a weapon in and does some damage. Funny how the same people bitching about "over capacity" due to safety are the ones bitching about the searches that are designed for their safety. Which is it going to be people? |
Yes, because I hide weapons in my crotch all the time. Some of them are very small, too - better make sure to thoroughly check the right nut AND the left nut because it could be hiding between the hairs on either one of those. Puh-leeze, the type of searching they do is absolutely ridiculous to call a "weapons only" search - they are searching for drugs, so they can bring them to their dealers inside and sell them for profit. It doesn't take an economist to figure out why this is a cost-effective practice for a club.
| quote: | | The Z103 factor. Isnt it funny how everyone on one hand blames Z103 for playing ferry corsten yet wants guv to go back to the good old days when it used to be Z103 music (granted mark used to get that stuff light years before 103 and sometimes 103 even discovered it off him) I honestly did not like the music back then. |
I actively hate and flame the z103 whining as much as anybody here, but what does that have to do with this topic, at all?
| quote: | | The person who said "the guvernment used to be more underground back then"....ok now what drugs have u been taking? If anything the music is far more underground today and all the ginos that used to hang out have moved on to hiphop. I personally like the techno/prog/house/breaks that are played on regular saturdays much more than Rank 1 and Darude from the "good old days". |
Who said this? I believe they said that the Guv used to have better parties back then, not that it was "underground." Not having been to the Guv in those days, I can't agree or disagree with that sentiment, but if the people who make these statements have been loyal patrons of the Guv for years and have only recently been turned off of the place, why would I not take their opinions seriously?
| quote: | | The crowd. Sadly this has always been a complaint of mine in Toronto. There are some true party people here but the majority are juicebags and posers and personally im happy that they no longer, for the most part come to the guv main room. The problem here is Toronto, not the club. Ive been to places where thousands of people have gone off to Digweed... im sorry but Digweed bores me... imagine these people if they reacted to a nice hard techno set from Mark Oliver.... taht being said... most of the time we have a pretty decent crowd at the guvernment. |
Toronto crowd sucks in many ways. This is true. Crowd at the Guvernment represents a pretty average cross-section of regular Toronto dudes and dudettes, although perhaps a little more on the sleazy side (as you'd find in any club, not just the Guv). But again, what's your point, we aren't complaining about the quality of the crowd - just the size of it.
| quote: | | As for the main beef about overcrowding. Honestly guys it wasnt THAT bad. Yes I agree that Labour of Love 2002 was a big problem and i can tell you that although the club has been quite busy since, there has never been a repeat of that day. Corsten was busy but i wouldnt call it over crowded. If you want to see overcrowding try going to Europe or South America where u cant even move because there are so many people. Im talking involuntary crowd surfing here. You have no idea |
I wasn't there, but evidently some of the people who were there did think it was THAT bad. Your comparison to LOL 2002 is simply not valid - are you trying to say that it must be just as bad as LOL2K2 in order to be considered dangerous? I think that perhaps the municipal regulatory board would disagree with you on that issue.
| quote: | | Oh and as for Guv making talent so much more expensive in Toronto. What a Torontocentric point of view. Whoever said this needs to get out more. Its not Guvernment that raises the DJ fees. These guys charge what they charge and it happens to be that only guvernment can pay these fees in Toronto. Remember Toronto is competing with the rest of the world where in most places a big party is considered 30,000 people and not 8000. Consider yourselves lucky that there is a place that has enough capital to be able to pay these DJs what they are asking because otherwise theyd just skip toronto. International DJs dont need Toronto when they can get their asking fees elsewhere in the world. |
Of course it's a Toronto-centric point of view! We're talking about the scene in TORONTO! Nobody is saying that Guv raises the DJ fees, but they are almost like a monopoly in clubland, crushing all the small businesses. Some little place like Element or Pulse raises enough money to put on an event that they think can draw a nice crowd, and Guv counters with a massive five-DJ party, so nobody ends up going to the little place (except those that you would call "elitists"), and those ordinary clubs can't survive.
| quote: | funny how the people bitching are probably the ones that only come once a year.
I bet the majority of you guys have no idea what goes on at the guvernment on a weekly basis |
Last summer, I went to Guv every week solid for about 2 months. There's no denying that summertime is the best time to go, and yet, for some reason I just stopped enjoying it after a while. Why? Well the music is alright, but I just couldn't stand the crowd and the smoke and the general atmosphere. I know what goes on on a weekly basis - sure, it's not as crowded as the "special events", of course it's not - but you know what, it's not exactly what I'd call "comfy". Is it "safe?" Yes, but that's not what we are complaining about, we are complaining about the times when it ISN'T SAFE! Try to make a note of that, since you still seem not to have figured that out. We don't care what happens on regular nights, we care what happens on irregular nights when it's ridiculously overcrowded and more than a little dangerous and illegal.
Moving on...
| quote: | and what will happen if osama decides to bomb a club event?
What if man never makes it to mars? |
Relevance?
| quote: | | Seriously i dont think over crowding at the guvernment is as bad as portrayed here. I think there are just people who are angry that they cant flail their glow sticks around without hitting someone with them. |
Yes, surely you must have noticed by now that our forum absolutely LOVES glowsticks. We talk about glowsticking ALL the time. In fact, our pre-meets are nothing but massive glowsticking warmups where we all practice our m4d gl0ws7icK1nG sk1llZ. :rolleyes:
/sarcasm
| quote: | | Clubs are always going to have lots of people. If not they close. |
Do you run a club? Do you know how the economics work? Do you know how any business works? It's not about just making a profit, it's about maximizing it. Clubs will have "lots" of people, yes, but they don't need to be *choked* with people in order to turn a decent profit.
| quote: | | Im no Fire Marshall, im not in charge of security and i dont know what kind of numbers go through on a given night. |
Then of what possible use is your "insight"?
| quote: | | And btw neither do any of you. |
This is true, but what we do know is that we had no room to move, and that clearly means that any kind of panic/fire/incident would be a complete disaster. If we can barely breathe when everybody is calm, how could we breathe when people are in a panic?
| quote: | | All i know is that the club is routinely inspected and it is still up and running so obviously the authorities are satisfied that the club is meeting standards. To watch all you armchair fire marshalls is actually quite funny. |
"Armchair fire marshalls?" That's a bit of a stretch isn't it, seeing as how the starter of this thread was seeking out the fire marshall. You're not making a whole lot of sense here - you have absolutely no way of knowing what transpires between the club management and the fire marshall, or if the club is ever inspected at all, since you yourself admitted that you've never seen it happen.
As for "meeting the standards", we know what the legal capacity of the Guv is and there are hundreds of pictures floating around TA alone that could easily prove that they've exceed that number (by a very large margin).
I think that addresses just about everything. But please, feel free to continue your nonsensical rants and fight for your precious overstuffed Guv - I'll be right here to expose that ignorance. |
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| Jayx1 |
Well at the risk of sounding simple i will summarize everything you have just said with one remark.
If you don't like it, DON'T GO!
Oh and for calling what i said about the fire marshall libel? ahahahah that's so reaching it's hurting... nice try there.. |
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| Creamfields |
Whoaaaaah there DigiNut!!! After youuu telling me to shut up I will make sure that "it happens".....geez what a loser....
[QUOTE by DigiNut]:
"Good. Let me start off by saying that unless you've got some special information for us, the question of whether or not you work at the Guv is fully irrelevant and my opinion of your post would be the same either way."
You stupid idiot. Whenever someone makes a post supporting a club that you currently have an agenda against, the first thing that you do is start bashing the person acusing them of working for the club. So when Jay wants to cut all the bull aside and starts off by saying that yes, he does work there you tell him it's irrelevant??? You're a moron and that's what I think about your post so I'm not even going to bother and reply to every little argument that you just wasted your time on. Get a life.
Btw, nice work there with all the quotes and the nice structure of your message. Must have taken you forever. After your informative post I'm sure this threat is "saved" and we're back on the track. |
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| Jayx1 |
Yeah not much of that was worth replying to really. His attempt to look smart actually backfired here.
I could have said the sky was blue and the earth was round and he would have argued against me. |
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| crazedcanuck |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
A bunch of great points |
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| TECHno addict |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Or why not just come on the regular saturdays when the music is better and its not full of posers? |
Regular Saturdays at Guv have the sketchiest crowd aside from CZ. |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by Creamfields
What overcrowding??????????? I was there during Ferry and it was fine. But anything above the capacity during Ferry would be crossing the line. Start complaining again if Labour of Love 2002 repeats itself. Until then stop whining. |
i'm whining ? nah.
So anyways, what if somebody does die from overcrowding ?
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