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why why why????? (pg. 5)
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| DJ_Elyot |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Dear lord man, if people want to believe in God then that's fine, but you're posting a theory based on an argument that's just plain wrong.
The HUP is NOT just related to what we can "know". Did you study quantum mechanics? Everything is based on probability distribution functions, and those functions are interrelated - as one function becomes more and more bounded, another function becomes more and more unbounded. The HUP is so often misinterpreted as being "just" related to "measurement", but its existence isn't due to our measuring ability, it's due to fundamental properties of matter and energy!
We're not talking about just not knowing where a particle is or how fast it's moving. We're talking about a particle that is actually not moving at any definite speed, and not located in any definite position. It integrates perfectly into wave-particle duality because the distribution functions are all wave functions. Strictly speaking, the particles don't actually exist at all - the particle "theory" is just one way of defining a quantum state.
Oh and as for Planck's constant being "small" - what is that supposed to mean!? Small compared to WHAT? You can't place qualitative adjectives on scientific CONSTANTS! Even if you could somehow define it as "small", haven't you ever heard of Chaos Theory?
I'm sorry but you're absolutely wrong here. I would never try to tell someone what religion to believe in, but this "science" you're posting is simply incorrect. We CAN'T know an entire quantum state, and that will be true no matter how advanced our science and technology gets.
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Yes, I have studied quantum. I was taught that yes, the probabilities expressed by quantum mechanics effect the outcome, but always that the outcome is distinct.
For example, I'm sure you've heard of Young's double slit experiment. There's an extension to it where the light source is so dim that photons only come out 1 at a time, and experiments have shown that they still hit the wall with the same distribution as if the entire ray of light were coming out all at once. Yes, the wave-particle duality is to blame, but a single photon still hits a SINGLE SPOT ON THE WALL. Which spot it hits is based on factors that are too small for us to measure... but yes, you're correct, the outcome is based on probability distribution functions.
However, even though the data fits the probability distribution functions, there is still no way to prove that the factors that determine the outcome of that photon's travel are truly RANDOM. They could be due to God, or due to a single, set-from-the-start outcome. We can agree that the results are unpredictable, but I disagree that it is possible to prove that they are random.
Quantum mechanics is a MODEL. The theories of a particle not possessing a definite position and velocity are used to explain bizarre outcomes like the one described above, but just because they don't explain what force select the outcome doesn't mean that such a force doesn't exist. God COULD be sitting up there rolling dice... or he could be making every little insignificant quantum decision as time progresses, shaping things as he sees fit. Or, as I choose to believe, there could simply be a process that DETERMINISTICALLY decides the result based on inobservable data.
What I meant when I talked about the Planck's constant being "small" is that the probabilities measurable and calculable to a rough extent. For example, there have been computations done that suggest things like "there is a 30 metre wave in the middle of a perfectly calm area of the ocean every 8 months due to the interference of random ocean waves". Such results have actually been verified experimentally by satellites observing the Oceans. Maybe at a later period in time as chaos increases, those waves would come more often.
I'd be interested to know whether such results within the human brain are equally as probable. For example, a statistic like "a perfectly healthy-minded individual could make the decision to kill themselves for no reason every X days because of quantum interference in their brain" would be something I'd consider valuable. X could be 5,000,000 or it could be 0.0001, but regardless... knowing the probability would not allow you to select which person it would happen to.
You must have misread my post, because I wasn't implying that we were capable of knowing an entire quantum state, as you claimed. I agree with you that we can't possibly know it... chaos is unpredictable, but we'll never know enough to prove that chaos is random.
I do agree that none of this really matters anyway. I've spoken to a few theoretical physicists, and most of them seem to think that we need some insanely brilliant experimental physicists if we ever want to make sense of all the theory that's floating around. |
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| arek |
| so we can time travel or what? |
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| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
why not?
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EXACTLY:) |
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| trancechaos |
| ^^^^saying why not is taking the easy way out. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancechaos
ever get those moments when you stop and wonder about the world? why are we here? is there really a god? whats beyond this world? whats the purpose of life? what happens when i die? how was it like before i was born? i wonder what life would be like if i wasnt a human but another animal? why do i have to listen to other people tell me how to live my life? why am i in school? where will i be 10 years from now? what is religion really about? why cant i travel through time? why do people have to die? why is mankind so stupid? why? why? why?
well the time is now 4:31am and i was studying for a midterm till i started wondering why? why anything? really whats the purpose of this life we live? why am i here? where am i going?
my head hurts.
anyone else get these moments? |
Have you ever tried decaf coffee? :stongue:
-and who said you cant travel throgh time? |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by arek
so we can time travel or what? |
Here's a classic thread that should open eys to many of you information-hungry people:
Time Travel |
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| DJ El Kay Dee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Here's a classic thread that should open eys to many of you information-hungry people:
Time Travel |
hahahahha i remember that thread.....kept me crackin up all day and the next day i was in a state of paranoia wondering "gee is it really true??" |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by djSlain
let me think................................no i don't beleive..........no wait, yes..........time travel?...88 miles per hour........flux capasitor......2.1 jigawatts....carry the 2... ok ok, i made up my mind......
this guy is from the future |
:haha: :haha: :stongue: :stongue: :haha: :haha: |
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| trancechaos |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Have you ever tried decaf coffee? :stongue:
-and who said you cant travel throgh time? |
i dont drink coffee.
just coz something is possible in theory dont mean that can actualy happen.
just look at how many theories have been proven wrong. someone mentioned youngs two slit experiment earlier and theoretically you can get diffracted if you go through a doorway at a certain speed due to the dual nature of matter, but that dont mean its gonna.
so be carefull walking through doorways you dont want to get diffracted now. |
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| Magnetonium |
What? :nervous:
Well, I can be quite controversial at times, but ...
a lot of the questions you asked can at most have theories to explain them, you know ... At some point in time I asked those questions myself as well. In fact, I came to some conclusions, even to a certainty to some of them. Some things in the universe just dont have the facts and explanations attached to them, but can only be found through time and work, luck and guess.
Personally, I think the universal conscience, the understanding of the existence and the life itself, can only be understood by those who know precisely how and when the universe formed, and the chemical reactions that took place that formed the universe, as well as the path of that reaction and the subsequent results in the future occuring as a result of it. i.e. those who understand how the universe works ...
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| DJ_Elyot |
I was at a guest lecture somewhere and I heard that they've actually invented quantum teleportation... they can zap certain particles between locations by bypassing the curvature of space-time... like zapping into and out of the fourth dimension quickly. Think of sending a person from one part of the earth to another by burrowing through the middle, instead of walking along the 2-dimensional surface of the earth. Same principle. I don't really know enough to explain much more of the theory, but supposedly they've been able to successfully teleport a few particles.
As for time travel... it's certainly possible to accelerate time in order to go into the future... we can even slow time down... but to go into the past... we'll probably never know. |
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