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Reasons for the Death of the Rave Scene (pg. 2)
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| DJ_Elyot |
Does WEMF count?
I think it's more people scared less that they're gonna get sued when somebody gets killed.
Back then nothing was regulated... nobody cared what was happening, nobody had any responsibility, and it was just about getting out and having a good time (with or without drugs). Then when the media caught on, people started getting into trouble, bylaws got passed, and now people are too scared to hold them illegally (for fear of getting harsh penalties when caught) and can't hold them legally (because of the lack of control and liability issues). Legal raves are only possible in a tightly controlled venue, and only huge clubs have the money to handle all the implications of hosting massive parties. It's no longer possible to get a few people to put their money together, rent a warehouse, open up to the public, and go nuts. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
i recall back in the 90's Toronto was way ahead of a lot of US and Canadian cities in progressing the EDM scene in North America .. we had some amazing parties and a lotta talented promoters throwing some very creative events. we were even praised by DJs like Bad Boy Bill who was bigging up our ability to throw parties numbering in the 10-15,000 range.. and DJ Sneak who even decided to move here and start his own record company.
now after a 4 year massive absence, and the fact that which DJs and what parties we attend are decided by a handful of people, who knows when things will ever change here, but one thing's for certain, other cities in North America are catching up and we're falling behind fast.
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I think there's a divergence in Toronto. The scene has split off into commercial superclub culture and underground parties. And as people become more and more disenchanted with the commercial, the underground will get bigger (it already is getting pretty big).
We will see massives again in Toronto again. I'm sure of it. Maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but eventually. In the meantime, there's always Montreal. :D
Graham, I know what you're getting at but you're focusing on the superclubs - I'm looking at the underground. Of course, it's not the same underground as the one that turned into '99 massives - it's less PLUR and more funk - but you can't expect a scene to stay the same forever, otherwise it gets stale.
On a side note, I think sex was a far more common theme of the '99 raves than it is of the '04 clubs/massives. |
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| Tb. |
| as with all youth culture movements, people had to grow up sooner or later, im sure if there were no rave laws introduced, the rave scene would of died out eventually, just like the hippie movement did. |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
But would you really call these "raves"? When I think of "raves", I think candy, E, '99, trance, PLUR, pink phat pants.
When I think of the massives of today, I think of: style, sex, funk, house, coke, meth, G, etc.
This brings me to another question: would you say E usage has gone down in the scene as usage of other drugs increases (in Toronto)? I think so. I also think that the attitude of the scene in '99 and the attitude of the scene now is totally reflected by popular drugs of the times.
No, I was not in the rave scene in '99, but I know many people who were and still party now that incline to agree with me. |
yeah i consider those parties to be raves.. according to your definition of a 'rave' it sounds like it died with the oncoming end of Hullabaloo parties. when i was in Europe i noticed less of a distinction between the rave interpretation of EDM and the club version of how it's presented to us. people seem to just party regardless of how one might classify them. for instance when I was at Godskitchen Global Gathering this year I saw many people who fit into both categories that you pointed out:
| quote: |
candy, E, '99, trance, PLUR, pink phat pants.
When I think of the massives of today, I think of: style, sex, funk, house, coke, meth, G, etc.
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but i still considered that party to be a rave.
with regards to the E question, i'd agree that it's no longer seen as a new drug and has become more mainstream. which probably does have somewhat of an effect on people's perception of the scene..
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I think there's a divergence in Toronto. The scene has split off into commercial superclub culture and underground parties. And as people become more and more disenchanted with the commercial, the underground will get bigger (it already is getting pretty big).
We will see massives again in Toronto again. I'm sure of it. Maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but eventually. In the meantime, there's always Montreal. :D
Graham, I know what you're getting at but you're focusing on the superclubs - I'm looking at the underground. Of course, it's not the same underground as the one that turned into '99 massives - it's less PLUR and more funk - but you can't expect a scene to stay the same forever, otherwise it gets stale.
On a side note, I think sex was a far more common theme of the '99 raves than it is of the '04 clubs/massives. |
i agree that the scene has diverged into club and underground factions. i think largely because the scene and the music itself has become more mainstream and many club owners now realize the benefit in booking international headliners and having resident EDM DJs play on certain nights. from what i recall, System, Tonic, Meow, and Turbo were the only clubs who were very active in booking EDM DJs on regular nights. Even Guvernment didn't book Tiesto and PVD until 2001 (Industry had brought PVD back in 1999 already by then). If any other clubs were booking EDM DJs they were usually more the underground type ie. Space and Comfort Zone. Clubs were largely being used as venues to host raves by independent rave promoters, but the club owners themselves were not actively seeking or promoting their own EDM nights until just recently. Even today we can still see that there are only a handful of clubs that regularly throw EDM nights with the exception of ones that might host house/progressive nights which are a bit more akin to a mainstream audience.
massives will come back to TO forsure .. we just need a new police chief who's less estranged with the scene
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodrico
I dont know so much as falling behind, as we still generate way more bigger names here year round than most cities (exception Montreal), its just finding more venues and people to be excited about the genre again. The funny part about Toronto is the crowd is so diverse, its hard to corner any market here in the Clubbing business, too much variety and taste. |
we're not really falling behind in terms of the level of talent that's being brought into the city, that if anything has increased. like you said, What we're falling behind in, is in the scale and variety of the types of parties we have today. other cities in North America are becoming more creative with their approach and how they're hosting events by using bigger venues as well as more unconventional ideas and themes for their parties.
many DJs who played in North America in the past would often only play in cities like Toronto, Montreal, New York, LA, and San Fran, etc.. now what ur seeing are DJs like James Zabiela play in places like Windsor, Armin Van Buuren play in Halifax, Blank and Jones playing in Minneapolis and Calgary, etc, etc.. it's just a testament to how much the scene has grown over the last few years. Moreoever, many DJs now touring across Canada and the USA who once only made stops in cities like TO are now dropping by in every other major urban center on the continent, making TO no less of an exception than anywhere else..
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| jdjd |
1. People finally realized how pathetic happy hardcore was, and how repetitive hardcore was. You couldn't honestly believe that these genres would last more than a few years could you?? So nobody listens to them anymore, where those 2 genres were a mainstay at pre-2000 parties. Bye bye Hulla.
2. Trance has exploded into clubs in the last 3 or so years. I think the first club to regularily play trance in t.o. all night was Spincat, opening in '99. The Bassmint and Industry in the last 90's had trance, but there was also alot of hardcore and house also, I don't remember any nights with all trance. Space played exclusively trance starting in 99, but that place was very underground. Now places like Guv, System, Viva are all getting in on it. Even some mainstream places play cheese trance. I should also mention that jungle has become alot more popular over the last while, which is good for System at least.
3. E. I think it's much more popular now than it was 5 years ago, contrary to what most ppl are saying on this thread. It might have lost its magic among the long-time partiers, but more and more people are at least trying it, if not doing it regularily. So overall there's a wider range and larger volume of people going to EDM parties for the E. |
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| newr |
I say that the biased media coverage killed raves... Towards the end of the rave era, raves were attracting media coverage because of the few deaths and ODs. As the media did "investigations" into the scene they concluded that raves are nothing but places for people to go and do lots of drugs, have sex, and fight. This report sparked questions regarding to the safety and well-being of ravers, and I believe it just became to difficult to attain government permission to hold a rave.
Another reason... I also went to raves when i was underage... because i couldnt get into clubs and i didnt like the house party scene... (where else would you be able to party and listen to EDM)
But in this era, besides us, who listens to EDM really? Unless its GinoBeats... Most of the underagers listen to (c)rap and hip hop. |
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| Your Mother |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
But would you really call these "raves"? When I think of "raves", I think candy, E, '99, trance, PLUR, pink phat pants.
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You got go back alot farther than 99 to get the essence of true rave culture.
-Your Mother |
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| Your Mother |
| quote: | Originally posted by jdjd
1. People finally realized how pathetic happy hardcore was, and how repetitive hardcore was. You couldn't honestly believe that these genres would last more than a few years could you?? So nobody listens to them anymore, where those 2 genres were a mainstay at pre-2000 parties. Bye bye Hulla.
2. Trance has exploded into clubs in the last 3 or so years. I think the first club to regularily play trance in t.o. all night was Spincat, opening in '99. The Bassmint and Industry in the last 90's had trance, but there was also alot of hardcore and house also, I don't remember any nights with all trance. Space played exclusively trance starting in 99, but that place was very underground. Now places like Guv, System, Viva are all getting in on it. Even some mainstream places play cheese trance. I should also mention that jungle has become alot more popular over the last while, which is good for System at least.
3. E. I think it's much more popular now than it was 5 years ago, contrary to what most ppl are saying on this thread. It might have lost its magic among the long-time partiers, but more and more people are at least trying it, if not doing it regularily. So overall there's a wider range and larger volume of people going to EDM parties for the E. |
Mark O was playing trance at the guv late 97/early 98. Probably before that but I never attended.
And to say trance has exploded over the last 3 years, everywhere I've been has been the complete opposite... trance exploding in 97/98 and then slowly dying off.
-Your Mother |
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| ali92 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Your Mother
You got go back alot farther than 99 to get the essence of true rave culture.
-Your Mother |
Yes, you have to go back to around late 1980s (1987--1989) and early 1990s (up to around 1995?). Anyone remember www.hyperreal.org? I still go there from time to time. A decent-sized archive of e-mails and group postings are there. Most dating back to the early to middle 1990s. |
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| halo20 |
| I think someone should clearly distinguish between the term rave (a scene, more ideological) and a large festival party (large masses of people getting fuxxored listening to beats) |
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| MattVagrant |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
media attention |
bingo -- the average citizen's epistemological perspecive on 'rave culture' has been deftly and stigmatically constructed by the media (despite the fact that these constructs are founded on inaccurate and even false pretenses).
hand in hand with that too, is both the media's focus on ecstacy as a drug, and the cops' subsequent focus on busting it. why? well, because the media constructs the drug as an anathematic topic in the minds of 'the people', the cops know they will best look like they're doing their job if they're seen in the media as fighting what is already PERCEIVED by the people as an 'evil' and ever-so-harmful threat. it's an ongoing cycle that serves to function as one of Althusser's ideological apparatuses, if any of you are familiar with his thinking.
the short of it is: that which is articulated in some form of text, is what BECOMES true (not the other way around). and, people being as inexorably exposed to a wide variety of media channels as they are, the truth-shaping power of the media is not only evident, but profound. |
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