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Reasons for the Death of the Rave Scene (pg. 6)
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| Callie5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by samhouse
?? to all the ravers..."did the rave scene of the mid 90's have that dark side to it...where you felt yourself going back week in and week out for the atomosphere?"
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Yes... the atomsphere was unbelievable! Something I will NEVER experience again. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time |
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| dance2dabeat |
I don't really know much of how raves were back in the day.....as I didn't even know about E intil i was in 11th grade (yes yes I know...I live in my own little world) and didn't go to first party until I was in OAC. And.....woh......was my first partying experience ever the best time of my life. I don't what to think about deaths that occur in raves. Honestly, I just think those people that OD b/c they have a major drug problem....but those other stories I hear of someone dying because of poppin' just one bad pill.....well that is scary .
No matter how good of a parent you are, you have no control of what your child decides to do with their life. We can only love them unconditionally and put them on the right path of a good life by feeding them, clothing them, sending them to school.....and the rest is really up to them. We just have to teach our children by setting a good example of what we have expereinced and have learned in our years. I don't think parents are to blame for the how the rave scene has changed over the years. Besides, kids are still doing and drugs without going to raves. I know people that pop E and go to a hick bars for christ sake!
My parents have no idea that I have been been involved in any drug....most parents still don't have a clue of what their kids do. My parents were raised very differently back in their day in Portugal. I can't even imagine what they would say or think if they ever had a clue of my partying experience. I don't even know if my parents know what E is.....maybe my dad.....but I highly doubt my mom even has a clue. My parents are very young and they are awesome. They are still very OLD SCHOOL though deep down.
I would of liked to see what partying was like back in the day. All I know is that the music just keeps getting better and better. |
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| Nemireck |
| quote: | Originally posted by Walter Mindz
Another problem I know of for sure is that a lot of old school ravers enjoyed how the music sounded years ago (1999 and earlier) to how it sounds today. Some of my friends just stopped going out because they don't like how Trance sounds now with a lot of them saying that it's not nearly as good as it was in 99' and the same for jungle heads who enjoyed it alot more back in 94-98', so we have a problem here with ppl not enjoying the change in the way music has "progressed".
These are the major ploblems that I feel have dampered our scene. |
This is a problem in ALL music genres. People are introduced to music they love, and when it evolves, they feel ditched. They want their old tunes back, but know they'll never be. Most people between the ages of 25 and 18 are now dreaming of "the good old days" when music was good (90's). Rockers in this age group think back to bands like Guns and Roses, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins etc. Fans of Dance think back to the days of JK, Fun Factory, Love Inc. Joee, etc. It's the nostalgia effect :) Now, being the n00b that I am I may not be qualified to make a call on this... but I've seen it happen to many scenes. The scene isn't dying, it's just cycling through. We've moved past the "good old days" and now wish we had them back. Unforunately you either have to learn to enjoy what we have now... or pray to God DJs start doing "old skool" nights where they play the classics (I would KILL to hear a DJ spin Saltwater or Gamemaster).
As for when the hippy movement died out, it didn't, it became us :) It simply evolved, hippies became ravers. Disco became Dance (what do you call Disco fans? They became Ginos). I'm not too worried about the scene... there was a crack-down... and in a while there will be a push to make it back into what it was, and there will be compromise and etc. and the scene will be healthy for a while until it dies out again. Remember, not long ago the Rock scene was in big trouble, then Limp Bizkit, Korn, and others came out and revived it.
The scene isn't dying, it's just changing. Have you noticed that the big events turn more into a concert atmosphere than a dancing club environment? That's a change.
ANOTHER problem is attention spans :) Most people don't have the attention span to enjoy Trance and such... all they hear is a repeating sequence for 30 seconds, get bored, and change the song. They don't GET IT. They don't hear the build-ups, climaxes and breakdowns, what they DO hear, is "Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dundundun dun dun dun dun dun dun dundundun".
Luckily, there are some semi-trance songs being played on stations like Z103 (Sattelite, Burned with Desire, It's time, As the rush comes, Truly, Silence). They've been watered down for a dance audience, but that audience could hear the trancy versions and come to enjoy them. And if you tune into 100.7 after midnight you get trance/house/tribal/break beats/techno etc. (Club 246) but that's only til like 5am and the audience is probably minimal. If there was a radio station that would grow the balls to break from 40 for an hour or two and play some true variety, we'd see the scene rebound pretty fast. |
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| dance2dabeat |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemireck
This is a problem in ALL music genres. People are introduced to music they love, and when it evolves, they feel ditched. They want their old tunes back, but know they'll never be. Most people between the ages of 25 and 18 are now dreaming of "the good old days" when music was good (90's). Rockers in this age group think back to bands like Guns and Roses, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins etc. Fans of Dance think back to the days of JK, Fun Factory, Love Inc. Joee, etc. It's the nostalgia effect :) Now, being the n00b that I am I may not be qualified to make a call on this... but I've seen it happen to many scenes. The scene isn't dying, it's just cycling through. We've moved past the "good old days" and now wish we had them back. Unforunately you either have to learn to enjoy what we have now... or pray to God DJs start doing "old skool" nights where they play the classics (I would KILL to hear a DJ spin Saltwater or Gamemaster).
As for when the hippy movement died out, it didn't, it became us :) It simply evolved, hippies became ravers. Disco became Dance (what do you call Disco fans? They became Ginos). I'm not too worried about the scene... there was a crack-down... and in a while there will be a push to make it back into what it was, and there will be compromise and etc. and the scene will be healthy for a while until it dies out again. Remember, not long ago the Rock scene was in big trouble, then Limp Bizkit, Korn, and others came out and revived it.
The scene isn't dying, it's just changing. Have you noticed that the big events turn more into a concert atmosphere than a dancing club environment? That's a change.
ANOTHER problem is attention spans :) Most people don't have the attention span to enjoy Trance and such... all they hear is a repeating sequence for 30 seconds, get bored, and change the song. They don't GET IT. They don't hear the build-ups, climaxes and breakdowns, what they DO hear, is "Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dundundun dun dun dun dun dun dun dundundun".
Luckily, there are some semi-trance songs being played on stations like Z103 (Sattelite, Burned with Desire, It's time, As the rush comes, Truly, Silence). They've been watered down for a dance audience, but that audience could hear the trancy versions and come to enjoy them. And if you tune into 100.7 after midnight you get trance/house/tribal/break beats/techno etc. (Club 246) but that's only til like 5am and the audience is probably minimal. If there was a radio station that would grow the balls to break from 40 for an hour or two and play some true variety, we'd see the scene rebound pretty fast. |
Very interesting.....
I know people who are not into trance or techno think it's the same boring beats over and over again (which is SOOOOO not the case.) They don't like the music....so they think it's boring and all the same.
It's the same as what i think of boy bands..... punk bands.... and girl singers like Britney and Christina, I can't stand that ......and the same I think it's boring and it all sounds the same and I can't stand it.!!!!
Music though is changing all the time. I know when I hear an old track that I love....I just go crazy.....but I don't get stuck in the past. There so so much more happening now with music and just when you think it can't get any better.....it does!! :tongue3 |
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| The Highroller |
Others mentioned the following points in this post which I agree with. I'll put them together for clarification.
The rave scene is being set up for a huge growth period. Why?
1. Julian Fantino is on the outs.
2. Top40 radio stations are starting to mesh with the music we listen to (Flashdance, Satelite, Burned With Desire, etc)
3. Massives are becoming popular again in North America.
4. The music itself this year has taken a HUGE turn for the better. I think it's safe to say 2004 has been the best year musically since 2000.
Anyone want to disagree or add something? |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
1. Julian Fantino is on the outs.
2. Top40 radio stations are starting to mesh with the music we listen to (Flashdance, Satelite, Burned With Desire, etc)
3. Massives are becoming popular again in North America.
4. The music itself this year has taken a HUGE turn for the better. I think it's safe to say 2004 has been the best year musically since 2000.
Anyone want to disagree or add something? |
I disagree.
1. The decline started way before Fantino became chief.
2. Top40 / mainstream KILLS the scene (ANY scene).
3. Proof? I don't think that's true at all.
4. I won't dispute that. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
1. The decline started way before Fantino became chief.
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I'm not saying the decline of the rave scene was because of Fantino, I'm saying that since he is leaving, and since massives are getting popular again, there is a possibility that massives could happen in Toronto again.
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
2. Top40 / mainstream KILLS the scene (ANY scene). |
Yes it does, but what I'm saying is that EDM presence in the mainstream is becoming increasingly dominant.
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
3. Proof? I don't think that's true at all.
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| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
ove Parade San Francisco, Cream/Tiesto in Concert Montreal, Monster Massive in LA, Halloween Massives in Vancouver and Seatle, WMC in Miami, PVD and Tiesto at Summerstage Central Park New York .. |
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| Nemireck |
| I wouldn't say EDM is becoming increasingly dominant... On Z103 yeah, but on any other radio stations the closest we had was Truly. Traffic ran dem tings for a long time on Z though |
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| Jayx1 |
EDM on the radio does not kill the scene so to speak. If done right it helps it grow.
Energy 108 was a huge factor in promoting dance music back before it went crappy and then morphed into a rock station.
Z103 is different. All they do is play the same 5 songs 15 times a day for 3 months....
man...........
F**K DAT!!! GET A NEW DJ!!
:stongue: :stongue: |
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| arek |
the rave scene died out due to the popularity of freestyle dance music, nike shoes, gino take over and mr t haircuts.
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| trancehed99 |
actually ive been analyzing the rave scene for over 6 years, and why it seemed to have died.
the answere is not simple
in fact every sensible explaination that has been mentioned in this thread is a reason and a contgributing factor to the death, change, evolution of the rave scene.
the biggest reasons of course are
it has gotten old - europe is still big because of the high density of their population. 300 million in a place the size of quebec and ontario. north america is 280 million in the size of north america.
North america is more of a chill zone, ie rock, hiphop - the electro doesnt grab that many people over here.
media murdered it for sure. we are so tight about that stuff over here, and its more liberal in EU. US influences CAN on that as well.
the partiers also murdered it because they are so spoiled and demanding that they cant just go out and have a good time, they need the superstars or they dont go anywhere. now its too expensive for a promoter to take the chance to throw a really good warehouse party.
the DJs murdered it - as our local djs pretty much suck , and dont take it all too seriously
the promoters murdered it aswell, see above, So many DJs started throwihg 2 bit parties only so they could be on stage and live out the dream they have had for 8 months since they started DJing in their bedroom. When was the last rave that was thrown by a promoter that didnt spin at his own party????
RAVE music was all played in 1 place, now every genre has separated into its own. I personally like this, but now a days that you can go anywhere to hear EDM, why go to a rave in a warehouse?
We need a great streak of quality events being thrown to re-gain the interest of the masses. until then its kool haus, docks, guv, etc. and unfortunately none of those clubs play music where you can go ing nuts. We NEED a really good UK NRG club. UK HARD TRANCE HARD DANCE etc. But who can afford to do such a thing?
Dont get me wrong Kool Haus is the best thing Toronto has had in a long time. |
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| Jayx1 |
You just contradicted yourself. You said that people dont go out unless there are huge headliners and then go on to say that all the local DJs here suck.
So which is it?
Personally I think the problem when it comes to DJs in Toronto is the fact that the Toronto mentality is screw or be screwed. A lot of other scenes work together somewhat whereas Torontonians seems to be super greedy. Politics just holds everyone back and this is one of the big reasons we have regressed here.
And before people start pointing fingers (resulting in EVEN MORE politics) I will say that ALL clubs and promoters are equally to blame here.
As for the local DJS? Many of them hold their own against the guests quite often. As a music lover myself I can attest to the fact that several local DJs here are world class such as Manzone and Strong, Kenny Glasgow, Mark Oliver and Peter and Tyrone. These guys outshine guests many many times. Many times the guests are very disappointing IMO. Sadly it's politics and infighting amongst clubs, promoters, book agents and other aspiring DJs that hold Toronto back.
You have to think to yourself how a place like Detroit got such huge international recognition and produced so much recognized talent considering i could count 1 or 2 events at the most (if you were lucky) per weekend at Detroit's peak. Perhaps its because most of these guys all worked together. Im well aware of some of the politics down there as well but they dont hold a candle to the BS that goes on up here. It was even worse in Toronto back when it peaked here.
Talk to any avid partier in a place like England and immediately they will equate Detroit with techno artists such as Jeff Mills and Derrick May. A lot of them think that Detroit is hopping every weekend. Ask them about Toronto and I bet it doesnt even make it on the radar. |
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