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Reasons for the Death of the Rave Scene (pg. 7)
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| Rodrico |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancehed99
actually ive been analyzing the rave scene for over 6 years, and why it seemed to have died.
the answere is not simple
in fact every sensible explaination that has been mentioned in this thread is a reason and a contgributing factor to the death, change, evolution of the rave scene.
the biggest reasons of course are
it has gotten old - europe is still big because of the high density of their population. 300 million in a place the size of quebec and ontario. north america is 280 million in the size of north america.
North america is more of a chill zone, ie rock, hiphop - the electro doesnt grab that many people over here.
media murdered it for sure. we are so tight about that stuff over here, and its more liberal in EU. US influences CAN on that as well.
the partiers also murdered it because they are so spoiled and demanding that they cant just go out and have a good time, they need the superstars or they dont go anywhere. now its too expensive for a promoter to take the chance to throw a really good warehouse party.
the DJs murdered it - as our local djs pretty much suck , and dont take it all too seriously
the promoters murdered it aswell, see above, So many DJs started throwihg 2 bit parties only so they could be on stage and live out the dream they have had for 8 months since they started DJing in their bedroom. When was the last rave that was thrown by a promoter that didnt spin at his own party????
RAVE music was all played in 1 place, now every genre has separated into its own. I personally like this, but now a days that you can go anywhere to hear EDM, why go to a rave in a warehouse?
We need a great streak of quality events being thrown to re-gain the interest of the masses. until then its kool haus, docks, guv, etc. and unfortunately none of those clubs play music where you can go ing nuts. We NEED a really good UK NRG club. UK HARD TRANCE HARD DANCE etc. But who can afford to do such a thing?
Dont get me wrong Kool Haus is the best thing Toronto has had in a long time. |
If it took you 6 years to amass that conclusion, I feel sorry for you. |
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| Jayx1 |
| and there are many flaws in that conclusion as well. |
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| trancehed99 |
^^^its because our locals (not all of them but for the most part) suck that people only put their faith in the international guys. when was the last time we had a TO locak make it big, or mix like tiesto?
why are the only person I have to explain that to? its not a contradiction! |
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| Jayx1 |
If our local DJs mixed like Tiesto then I would agree that they would all suck ;) Tiesto is about as technically skilled as the monkeys at the Toronto zoo. People like him because he plays big tunes and makes big tunes. Technically though the guy mixes are wobbly at best.
Read my story about politics to understand why DJs here havnt "made it big".
PS: you sound like part of the problem that you mentioned. Especially the part about only going to big headliner events only. |
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| trancehed99 |
ricardo
all im saying is that there is not 1 clear cut reason for the state of the scene.
you couldn't come up with those conclusions in 1 year as all the mayhem happened over a period of 5 years. how would you have identified that the media contributed to the demise of the scene in the last 2 years, when the media hasn't touched the subject for so long?
jayx - tiesto used to mix so amazingly now its just a job |
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| Jayx1 |
ok then i would postulate that if the headline djs arent pulling their weight for the 40,000 odd dollars they demand then they are probably the #1 reason for decline.
If the hyped up djs dont live up to the hype, the newbies wont be interested for very long. |
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| trancehed99 |
yes thats right like i said the DJs are a contributing factor also all djs. they are expensive because in EU the market will bare that. here it won't. they dont put on nearly the show over here as they do in EU. DJs will perform better if the event is better. an alcohol filled club doesnt exactly excite all the big name DJs from EU. we are small potatoes over here.
i dont see why you are arguing with my points they are along the same lines as the point you are trying to raise.
anyway like ive said ive been going over all the reasons for a very long time. I agree with every point that was said, and i am exhausted discussing the same things over and over. its always the same. |
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| Jayx1 |
I disagree. The market CAN support it here. Also, let me tell you that at these huge events in Europe they charge 50 Euros for one headliner where routinely we charge 30-40 canadian for a mega huge party with 5 or 6 international headliners. For the record, most of those clubs ALSO serve alcohol. Whats more they serve it ALL NIGHT.
At the prices we charge here for what the DJs charge I must say that Canadian partiers are spoiled.
Sorry but Tiesto is Tiesto. Ive heard his live sets from holland and other countries and unless they are mastered in a studio they pretty much all sound the same. The reason he's so big around the world is because he has produced a lot of commercial tunes. His stuff is TOP 40 in Europe and working its way into north american top 40 radio as well. It has nothing to do with his DJing skills, thats just how he makes money whether its here or anywhere else.
I dont knock him for being successful. He's a great producer for what he does, I just dont think hes that great of a DJ.
But again i say that politics in toronto is the biggest cause for our failure. We have so much talent right here in Toronto yet politics is what keeps everything from growing. Also the fact that Canada's attitude is that unless a DJ makes it onto essential selection in the UK he's not worth mentioning.
Im sick of Canadian attitude that basically states that unless others recognize our talent, he probably sucks. This is a problem not only in music but with authors, scientists, and any other celebrity type field you can think of. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Also the fact that Canada's attitude is that unless a DJ makes it onto essential selection in the UK he's not worth mentioning.
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If they're so good, then why don't they have an essential mix? :rolleyes: :p |
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| Jayx1 |
LOL
I guess they havnt kissed enough british ass. |
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| trancehed99 |
jayx
of course you disagree i wouldnt expect otherwise and unfortunately you are misunderstanding one of your own points. allow me to point out where...
if the marked could afford to pay our local djs 30 000 USD for a night, then im sure there would be alot more party activity going on. but this topic is about the lack of activity. we cant afford to pay out locasl the bucks because there is no market.
in EU there is a market to pay their locals (AVD PVD, etc that cash)
We bring these DJs in but thats it, we do not spend the same money as they do on decor, lighting, promotion etc. because we cant afford it. I would pay 50 euros for a party of the scale of the EU, but not too many people here would. THUS no market - again why do I have to explain this to you?
yes they serve alcohol all night correct, but that is barely the point!
anyone can say politics is the cause... and yes it is also a factor, but you have to be more specific as to what politics.
"Im sick of Canadian attitude that basically states that unless others recognize our talent, he probably sucks. This is a problem not only in music but with authors, scientists, and any other celebrity type field you can think of."
you will really need to back up that statement because it makes no sense. but let me try to see what you are saying.... Canadian attitude says that unless others recognize our talent he probably sucks. - sorry i would fail my english exam if I wrote that. (our talent he probably sucks)
assuming that you are saying that there is alot of unknown talent in Canada. - well thats really great for canada, but thats the whole point about developing a reputation. 6 years ago we didnt need a reputation to fill the better living centre now we do.
(i really enjoyed the part where you brought in our scientists and authors - as if this debate wasnt convoluted enough. for the record our doctors and pharm companies are world renowned and its because of the reputation they have developed)
promotion companies try to bypass the reputation building process by bringing in "proven" headliners. they lose money and never throw a party agian.
for the record - yes some TO DJs like kenny glasgow, dekoze etc are amazing (not trance but amazing) if the market was massive here they would all have platnum albums and headline 15000 people parties.
i cant get too into it and proof read every statement i make cause im at work and my original intention was to lay a few points and be done with it, but as usual those who are not on the same page as the rest of us say things like "uhh you are contradicting yourself, or "duhh I feel sorry for you" |
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| Jayx1 |
i agree with a lot of what you just said.
What you are saying now all ties in with my original response. However in the past our parties were on such a grand scale like in Europe and occasionally still are. The decor and lighting aspect of a party is the cheap part. The talent is the #1 expense.
Why dont we pay locals that kind of money? Simply because people have the mistaken belief that they arent worth it. Personally I dont think any dj is worth 40 Gs a night. 10 G max. This ties in with my Canadian attitude comment. And please spare me the grammar lessons since this is a message board and not a term paper. |
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