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Football summer signings (pg. 14)
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Michael19
I agree, i think he is the most complete forward. On the Shevchenko choice, i think he is the most complete striker. From what i have seen he isnt as creative as henry. Henry can not only core goals, but is excellent at creating them. |
Shev also benefits from excellent playmakers in Milan which Henry has to create a lot for by himself. |
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| evil_bastard |
Not really, Arsenal are a team renowned for their attacking in a league renowned for its attacking. Milan are a team renowned for their defending in a league renowned for its defending. Many of the best strikers have struggled in the Italian league, let's not forget Henry left that league before really making his name in England. The Arsenal team is set up to play around Henry. Pires, Vieira, Ljungberg, Reyes, Bergkamp, Fabregas, Gilberto, Edu etc are very good at creating chances. Henry plays in a 4-4-2 system for France where the focus is not so much on him and he is far more anonymous in games.
If you want to destroy West Brom 6-0 or whatever then you'd rather Henry in your team but if you're playing Man Utd you'd rather Shevchenko. Henry is a bit too predictable for the best defenders, and no player who is useless in the air can be called 'the complete forward'.
Arsenal are a very stylish team to watch but their lack of success in Europe has been because their game is actually quite one-dimensional. They're brilliant at fast passing and movement and terrifying counter-attacks but when that's just not working they run out of ideas. The Bayern Munich games were a good example of this. Chelsea mixed their game a bit more and found ways through the Bayern defence, scoring 4 goals past them. Henry is amazing at what he does but he is not the complete centre forward. |
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| raveed |
i agree ...plus henrys main strength would have to be his speed ... the mans practically a sprinter and once he gets past his marker theres no chance hes going to get caught ... i dunno wat to say about his finishing ... he never really slams the ball in rather he has these subliminal chips he sidefoots into the goal which i have not seen anyone do better but you need to get very close to goal with that and i think rio ferdinand has more chances of scoring with his head than henry does ... i beleive he has only scored 4 times with his head in his club career...besides he would qualify more as a forward than a striker anyway he doesnt have that strikers instinct that RVN and sheva possess... unless he improves his record in europe and for his country he should never be considered as one of the all time greats and this is prolly the reason why he never wins footballer of the year
shevchenkos a ing legend ... hes my fav player and its a shame he plays for one of my most hated clubsjust behind juventus, bayern munich and chelsea... the guy can score from practically anywhere |
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| PEZ68 |
| Van Der Sar to play with Manchester U next season |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by PEZ68
Van Der Sar to play with Manchester U next season |
He's what, 32-33? Good pick up as I think he's been instrumental in keeping Fulham from being relegated but temporary stop gap measure as he gets older, Man U will need to pick up someone else.Certainly more consistent than Howard and Carroll. |
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| Kytracid |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
I'd say Shevchenko is the most complete forward in the world. He has everything Henry has plus more. He is excellent in the air and a lot more consistent, for starters. Henry scores for fun against mickey-mouse teams but the top defenders know his game. Shevchenko simply has more in his locker than Henry, he's a more complete striker. He's a bit like Henry and Van Nistelrooy combined! |
Tough argument to win. Both strikers are world class. Henry is complete in the sense he was originally a winger, and because of that he has the ability to drift out and create more chances for his teammates. Sheva is a pure striker. Milan play to his strength which is making defence splitting runs and finishing them off with a goal. Sure, Sheva beats Henry in the air, but Henry is better on the dribble and more creative in his passing. He also creates more for his team mates then Sheva.
Dunno what you mean by Sheva being more consistent. To my knowledge Henry has scored more goals then Sheva. And remember last season...Sheva had like 5 goals in 25 appearences. Hardly the goal scoring machine he was this year.
Sheva's stats with Milan Apps Goals
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1994/95 Dinamo Kiev Serie A 16 1
1995/96 Dinamo Kiev Serie A 31 16
1996/97 Dinamo Kiev Serie A 20 6
1997/98 Dinamo Kiev Serie A 23 19
1998/99 Dinamo Kiev Serie A 28 18
1999/00 Milan Serie A 32 24
2000/01 Milan Serie A 34 24
2001/02 Milan Serie A 29 14
2002/03 Milan Serie A 24 5
2003/04 Milan Serie A 32 24
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269 151
That's a goal ratio of goal every 1.8 matches
Here's Henry's league Goals
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94-95 Monaco 3 Goals, 8 Games
95-96 Monaco 3 Goals, 18 Games
96-97 Monaco 9 Goals, 36 Games
97-98 Monaco 4 Goals, 30 Games
98-99 Monaco 1 Goals, 13 Games
98-99 Juventus Turin 3 Goals, 16 Games
99-00 Arsenal 17 Goals, 31 Games
00-01 Arsenal 17 Goals, 35 Games
01-02 Arsenal 24 Goals, 33 Games
02-03 Arsenal 24 Goals, 37 Games
03-04 Arsenal 30 Goals, 37 Games
04-05 Arsenal 25 Goals, 32 Games
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160 Goals, 326 Games
Henry's ratio is slightly higher at 2.0 goals per game...but he was used as a winger for the first 6 years of his career before comming to Aresnal, whereas sheva has always been a striker.
As far as consistency goes, in the league Henry has been dominant for the last 4-5 years.
Also, not sure what you qualify as mickey mouse teams...but to me, sheva's goals playing with Dinamo Kiev against no name opposition don't count for ...if Henry was playing in Russia he would have been a 20 goal scorer every season as well. |
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| evil_bastard |
But do the statistics tell the whole story...
The majority of Henry's goals are against struggling teams. His hat-trick against Norwich, his hat-trick against Portsmouth and his brace against Crystal Palace accounted for a third of his goals this season. Henry plays in attacking England, Shevchenko in defensive Italy.
Arsenal goals this season: 87
Milan goals this season: 63
If you put Henry in Italy and Shevchenko in England, I'd like to see the results. My guess is Shevchenko would have the much bigger impact, whatever formation you played him in.
The most complete forward would have to be someone who has every aspect to his attacking game, and when one style of play isn't working the team can switch it around and still rely on their 'complete' forward to adapt and turn the game in their favour. Henry is not very adapatable, as we've seen when Arsenal are struggling or when he's playing for France. If Newcastle were in the Champions League and could choose either striker, I'd take Sheva every time because I'd know he would perform in the big games and when we're up against it and need to change our game he would be able to grab an unlikely goal from nowhere. |
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| Kytracid |
hehe, like that important goal he scored to help AC Milan win the Champions League finals this year ? ;)
You can make a case for either striker being the best in the world. It's difficult to win the argument because both players are actually that good where only a few stats and the odd quality of two differentiates them.
Sheva has won the CL with Milan, whereas Henry is a world cup winner with France and has done the double with the gunners. They have both played well at the highest stage, and depending on what type of team and style you play are capable of scoring 20+ a season. |
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| evil_bastard |
I don't think you can ever really say who is the 'best' forward in the world. Shevchenko and Henry are certainly two of the most sought-after but play for teams with different styles.
With regards to transfer rumours, Barcelona would be an excellent club for Henry because they play a similar style to Arsenal, only they're much more effective in Europe. Henry and Etoo with Ronaldinho and Deco setting up chances would be pretty scary. I can't see Arsenal selling him for any price though because their team is built around him.
As for the cup final, Shevchenko did score but it was disallowed :p How on earth did he miss that double-chance in extra-time though when it was easier to score! That will go down as the miss of his career, all credit to Dudek though. |
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| raveed |
well we just got the green light from PSV to speak to park ji sung ...good to see the post glazer takeover era is moving in the right direction .. havent seen the lad play much but hear good things about him so hopefully we can wrap up the signing soon ...
also there are romours that totenham want scott parker from chelsea to avoid any hard feelings over the controversial attempt by chelsea to hire their sporting director frank arnesen ... however liverpool and everton are 2 of the other clubs interested in securing his services
ronaldinho has again publicly stated he would be extremely happy in theirry henry came to barca and ac milan appear to be trailing freddie ljungberg since apparently he has stalled on a new contract ... wonder where he would fit in though given kaka and gattuso are first chpice starters |
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| The_G0dfather |
| haha Kluivert back in Nou Camp, at least for one game :D |
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| evil_bastard |
| quote: | Originally posted by raveed
also there are romours that totenham want scott parker from chelsea to avoid any hard feelings over the controversial attempt by chelsea to hire their sporting director frank arnesen ... however liverpool and everton are 2 of the other clubs interested in securing his services |
I think he'll come to either Tottenham or Newcastle.
Everton can't guarantee CL football yet with that qualifier looming and can't offer him the wages other clubs could. He's leaving Chelsea because he's sick of sitting on their bench, there's no way he'd take a paycut and go to Liverpool only to sit on their bench, plus I don't think Liverpool are really after him as they have other areas to strengthen. Tottenham could also have problems with his wages but they are the club he supported as a boy and he wouldn't have to move house either. Newcastle are also trying to get him, we could pay higher wages than Everton or Spurs and he'd definitely get a game in our midfield, with Bowyer and/or Butt said to be leaving as well as Viana. |
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