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Tory Aurora MP Belinda Stronach crosses the floor to the Grits (pg. 11)
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| musicsnob_NOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
Moral issues should always be subject to free votes. Partisan politics is overrated. |
I think you need to look at what the government should do. The majority should rule and make decisions, but at the same time they have to protect the minority, that's their responsibility. If moral issues were to be subject to free votes I wonder if women and blacks would be allowed to vote, would women be able to get abortions, would Guy Paul Morin be dead right now. I could care less if you are a racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever... join a party that is up front with thier views on those issues and lets see how much support they will get. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT
I think you need to look at what the government should do. The majority should rule and make decisions, but at the same time they have to protect the minority, that's their responsibility. If moral issues were to be subject to free votes I wonder if women and blacks would be allowed to vote, would women be able to get abortions, would Guy Paul Morin be dead right now. I could care less if you are a racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever... join a party that is up front with thier views on those issues and lets see how much support they will get. |
sure they would. These changes came about because society wanted them. In fact the government was pretty much forced to legalize abortion back in the 80s by the will of the people. id rather have 366 (or whatever number it is now) people deciding these issues rather than a non elected judge or 1 person in the house of commons (the prime minister) which is how it works now. |
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| musicsnob_NOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
yes isnt that what they are elected for? If not then we should only have 1 person per party in parliament. |
No they aren't. The PARTY LEADER is elected. No matter what you may think the MP has no power. You can argue to change our political system, but unless you change it drastically it will never work. Maybe if we started to pay our politicians enough money to attract the best and brightest we might have MP's who are capable of making these types of decisions. If you think we have political gridlock now, and deals being made that cost us taxpayers millions, how bad do you think it would get if each MP had that kind of power to vote however they wanted. Look at the USA. |
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| amb_ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
There are NDP and Greens as well. |
I agree.
More people will flock to the NDP or even the Green Party, especially in Ontario, rather than embrace those who have forged a capricious deal with the BQ... |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT
No they aren't. The PARTY LEADER is elected. No matter what you may think the MP has no power. You can argue to change our political system, but unless you change it drastically it will never work. Maybe if we started to pay our politicians enough money to attract the best and brightest we might have MP's who are capable of making these types of decisions. If you think we have political gridlock now, and deals being made that cost us taxpayers millions, how bad do you think it would get if each MP had that kind of power to vote however they wanted. Look at the USA. |
It wouldnt take a drastic change. All the prime minister has to do is allow free votes and its done. What you advocate is more like a dictatorship than a democracy. If you are saying you cant trust your local MP then why did you vote for them? BTW where do you think they pick prime ministers from? Your local MPs of course. Same with cabinet ministers. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by amb_
I agree.
More people will flock to the NDP or even the Green Party, especially in Ontario, rather than embrace those who have forged a capricious deal with the BQ... |
What deal? All they have done is agreed that the government is corrupt. How can they be allies simply by both opposing the government which is what opposition parties are supposed to do by name? Im sick of this alliance BS. The two parties have nothing in common except they both oppose the government and until layton sold out he was right there with them. So i guess that made layton a seperatist sympathizer too? |
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| musicsnob_NOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
sure they would. These changes came about because society wanted them. In fact the government was pretty much forced to legalize abortion back in the 80s by the will of the people. id rather have 366 (or whatever number it is now) people deciding these issues rather than a non elected judge or 1 person in the house of commons (the prime minister) which is how it works now. |
It wasn't legalized, the courts just ruled that the antiabortion law was unconstitutional. Like it or not the MP's are not cabable of fully understanding the constitution. All of our Moral laws (same sex marriage, abortion, capital punishment) will be decided by the courts. The government should make fiscal policy. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT
It wasn't legalized, the courts just ruled that the antiabortion law was unconstitutional. Like it or not the MP's are not cabable of fully understanding the constitution. All of our Moral laws (same sex marriage, abortion, capital punishment) will be decided by the courts. The government should make fiscal policy. |
So why dont we just abolish government and let unlelected judges decide everything? |
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| musicsnob_NOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
It wouldnt take a drastic change. All the prime minister has to do is allow free votes and its done. What you advocate is more like a dictatorship than a democracy. If you are saying you cant trust your local MP then why did you vote for them? BTW where do you think they pick prime ministers from? Your local MPs of course. Same with cabinet ministers. |
You are arguing both sides. At the beginning you said people gritted their teeth and voted for Belinda becasue they wanted to vote for the Conservative, but now you want to let the local MP's vote how they feel. If the people of Canada could vote for their MP or MPP and vote for the PM or Premier then I would agree to this... but they can't. Give me the party leader, let me know where you stand on the issues, and let me vote on those issues - and follow them - see Mike Harris - its not a dictatorship, its how the system we have has to work. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by amb_
those who have forged a capricious deal with the BQ... |
there is no deal, and you know it |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT
You are arguing both sides. At the beginning you said people gritted their teeth and voted for Belinda becasue they wanted to vote for the Conservative, but now you want to let the local MP's vote how they feel. If the people of Canada could vote for their MP or MPP and vote for the PM or Premier then I would agree to this... but they can't. Give me the party leader, let me know where you stand on the issues, and let me vote on those issues - and follow them - see Mike Harris - its not a dictatorship, its how the system we have has to work. |
They did..but if MPs were allowed a free vote then people would vote this way far less often and pay more attention to the candidate. Thats the point im making. |
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| musicsnob_NOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
So why dont we just abolish government and let unlelected judges decide everything? |
I said the government should make fiscal policy. The will of the people will bring about the change on moral issues, which the judges will determine if they are constitutional or not. You can argue how our judges should be appointed, but they are the ones who will make our laws. |
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