|
Suddenly I realized the stupidity of long buildups (pg. 17)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
Hehe... I knew someone would pick me up on that. Ofcourse its trance. I meant its not a derivative of trance music per se... like progressive, tech, uplifting etc... which are all traced back to the same source ie: 'trance' But when people point to goa and say... why isnt trance like it used to be? Well thats just wrong. Trance was never goa and vice versa. |
trance is goa's parent genre. dj's arrived to goa and played trance, it didnt work for a while, but they kept at it, and slowly the backpackers started to like it. it mutated a bit in goa, and went back into the rest of the world at the hands of those djs. |
|
|
| DJ Cinos |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
trance is goa's parent genre. dj's arrived to goa and played trance, it didnt work for a while, but they kept at it, and slowly the backpackers started to like it. it mutated a bit in goa, and went back into the rest of the world at the hands of those djs. |
The root trance sounded more like goa than what's called trance today. Goa is pretty much the path original trance took, and the epic genre is a splinter. |
|
|
| Joost |
| Katana - Tribal Shock has a pretty damn long buildup. |
|
|
| Zombie0915 |
What about the songs like
BT - Flaming June
Salt Tank - Eugina
To me I find alot of songs that have buildups and breakdowns are very tastefully done. It is a bit presumptous to say that all builup breakdown trance is stupid, despite it not being as repetitive and hypnotic as its precursors. I agree that it should be called something other than trance but just because it is not entrancing doesn't make it bad music.
How did the classic trance get displaced by this newer style anyway? Clearly the people who make the epic trance sound were not the same people who were making the first trance tunes, did they just quit because a spinoff was getting more attention? There seem to be sooooo many people who prefer that old sound, it is hard to understand why that sound just stopped getting made if so many people even to this day still prefer it. I dont see why they couldnt have just kept making it and continued pleasing the niche crowd who liked the classic trance music, how did the arrival of epic trance cause the displacement of the classic sound, why couldnt they just keep making it? The way I see it, if I had made some amazing new style of music, then somebody else came along with a commercialy succesful spinoff of that music, there would be no reason for me to stop making my sound despite a large following developing for the spinoff. I dont understand why classic trance became so rare and why all the musicians abandoned it just because a spinoff became more popular, it seems that if that music was really such a special thing they would have kept making it despite the succes of the new form. |
|
|
| RebeL9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
Hehe... I knew someone would pick me up on that. Ofcourse its trance. I meant its not a derivative of trance music per se... like progressive, tech, uplifting etc... which are all traced back to the same source ie: 'trance' But when people point to goa and say... why isnt trance like it used to be? Well thats just wrong. Trance was never goa and vice versa. |
the original trance is closer to goa trance than the trance today. what is called trance mainly today (the stuff Tiesto, Armin plays) is more influenced by pop and eurodance.
people in goa never called the trance there for goa trance. they called it simply trance. |
|
|
| Ishkur |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
Decentralisation of a movement provides a certain freedom from commercialism that isnt possible when a movement takes place in a club environment. Trance never started out as commercial, but as soon as it started competing with house for floorspace at major clubs, it started a vicious cycle of promotion that eventually drove it into the mainstream. As it becomes more popular, the big DJ's get more into it, people rave about the big ch00ns more, the events sell more tickets, promoters and labels become more interested... and the cycle continues... but hey... the kids love it ;) |
To add to this....mainstreamization or something getting popular is not inherently a bad thing, but what can make it a bad thing is the inherent danger in creating something for the sole purpose of commercial appeal in the first place.
To wit: commercial music, by its very definition, is very simple, tepid, watered down, safe and boring. It has to be. In order to appeal to the greatest number of people (thus edifying its status as pop), it can't be too "outlandish" or too strange that might offend or turn away the balance of the population. It's got to appeal to EVERYONE...and the only way to appeal to EVERYONE is to not disclude anyone's taste or judgment. Thus, we get this lukewarm schlock that is faux-excitement, made digestible by committee and catered directly to the lowest common denominator. If it were a food it would be white rice.
Pop music is historically retrogressive, and by that I mean it uses tried and true music models and formulas for success. It rarely, if ever, innovates, creates, or evolves new internal structures by itself, because that's not what it's meant to do. Typically, what will happen is the underground--that breeding ground of new forms and new ideas where each scene cares only about self-satisfaction and the satisfaction of its eclectic yet miniscule (and thus non-commercial worthy) fan-base--might accidently create something of worthy appeal to the masses. When this happens, Nirvana and grunge music, for instance, the pop music industry always smells money, never the aesthetics of the music, and immediately makes copycat music (by signing similar sounding bands to big labels) in an attempt to cash in on the craze. In most cases, this copycat music is an inferior, low-quality impression of the original, but close enough that the masses don't mind, because they aren't unhealthily obsessive nitpickers about their music. They just like what they hear on the radio and TV, they generally don't discriminate like the dissectors of the artform do.
In trance's case, it has actually gradually grown into the commercial market rather than shoved into the spotlight suddenly over the night. It's been a slow process of shaving away the slivers of the old trance model that is not appetizing to mass culture and repainting the genre with sing-a-long melodies and car commercial jingles. Slowly over the years it has become more and more like the pop music you people so vehemently oppose, and today's Vocal Trance is pretty much indistinguishable from eurodance--minus the rapping. Now, that wouldn't be a bad thing if the music (and its listeners) didn't have a tendancy to take itself so god damn seriously. |
|
|
| Sykonee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0915
I dont see why they couldnt have just kept making it and continued pleasing the niche crowd who liked the classic trance music, how did the arrival of epic trance cause the displacement of the classic sound, why couldnt they just keep making it? The way I see it, if I had made some amazing new style of music, then somebody else came along with a commercialy succesful spinoff of that music, there would be no reason for me to stop making my sound despite a large following developing for the spinoff. I dont understand why classic trance became so rare and why all the musicians abandoned it just because a spinoff became more popular, it seems that if that music was really such a special thing they would have kept making it despite the succes of the new form. |
It isn't that it was stopped being produced. What happened was the old labels that supported it folded (EyeQ, Music Research) or changed direction (Platipus, Rising High). And the newer ones never picked it up, instead focusing on the catchier sound that was tearing up clubs and raves since it was far more marketable. Without label support, the old stuff faded away.
Even if he produced the exact same stuff today, you'd never see a B-Zet release on Armada or Black Hole, as it's hardly the kind of music they promote. And without those labels' top jocks slamming it, your typical tranceaddict ain't gonna even know it exists. Only the hardcore dig deep and long enough to discover what else is out there on small, small labels releasing this kind of material out of a single ski shop in Smithers (or something like that). |
|
|
| Axolotyl |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
trance is goa's parent genre. dj's arrived to goa and played trance, it didnt work for a while, but they kept at it, and slowly the backpackers started to like it. it mutated a bit in goa, and went back into the rest of the world at the hands of those djs. |
What is the connection there? Which DJ's that could have been classified as trance DJ's went to Goa?
As far as I know it was mainly artists like Goa Gil, Front 242, Juno Reactor that evolved EBM and Techno music into Goa trance, rather than European DJs taking early rave trance there and allowing it to evolve.
So essentially, you have labels like Platipus, Harthouse, Noom releasing early and what we coin as the 'original' trance form in Germany and UK, but at the same time on the other side of the world, you have a collection of other artists discovering a similar sound ie: Goa trance. The two may have been very loosely influenced by each other, but I dont think there was any real connection there?? Bear in mind, this was before the internet and forums such as this and before laptop production. Collaboration between the two movements would have been difficult. At the best, DJs would have supported both styles of trance.
I could be wrong, but I've never been shown any real proof to the contrary. |
|
|
| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
What is the connection there? Which DJ's that could have been classified as trance DJ's went to Goa?
As far as I know it was mainly artists like Goa Gil, Front 242, Juno Reactor that evolved EBM and Techno music into Goa trance, rather than European DJs taking early rave trance there and allowing it to evolve.
So essentially, you have labels like Platipus, Harthouse, Noom releasing early and what we coin as the 'original' trance form in Germany and UK, but at the same time on the other side of the world, you have a collection of other artists discovering a similar sound ie: Goa trance. The two may have been very loosely influenced by each other, but I dont think there was any real connection there?? Bear in mind, this was before the internet and forums such as this and before laptop production. Collaboration between the two movements would have been difficult. At the best, DJs would have supported both styles of trance.
I could be wrong, but I've never been shown any real proof to the contrary. |
astral projection, who were among the first if not THE first goatrance producers in israel, only started producing it after one of them (or two, dont remember) came back from a trip to goa with tapes and recollections of the music there.
i don't remember how the music got there (to goa) precisely, do a little research and you'll find it. |
|
|
| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
What is the connection there? Which DJ's that could have been classified as trance DJ's went to Goa?
As far as I know it was mainly artists like Goa Gil, Front 242, Juno Reactor that evolved EBM and Techno music into Goa trance, rather than European DJs taking early rave trance there and allowing it to evolve.
So essentially, you have labels like Platipus, Harthouse, Noom releasing early and what we coin as the 'original' trance form in Germany and UK, but at the same time on the other side of the world, you have a collection of other artists discovering a similar sound ie: Goa trance. The two may have been very loosely influenced by each other, but I dont think there was any real connection there?? Bear in mind, this was before the internet and forums such as this and before laptop production. Collaboration between the two movements would have been difficult. At the best, DJs would have supported both styles of trance.
I could be wrong, but I've never been shown any real proof to the contrary. |
Sven Väth, the former runner of Harthouse, made many trips to GOA in the early-90's. In fact, he signed a Trance artist to Harthouse whom he met in GOA after he heard some DAT's produced by this artist. I'm talking about Susumu Yokota, AKA Frankfurt-Tokio-Connection. |
|
|
| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
To wit: commercial music, by its very definition, is very simple, tepid, watered down, safe and boring. |
Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, the Beastie Boys and Blur are just some of the many bands coming to break your legs for saying that. |
|
|
| humilis |
| quote: | Originally posted by RebeL9
the original trance is closer to goa trance than the trance today. what is called trance mainly today (the stuff Tiesto, Armin plays) is more influenced by pop and eurodance.
people in goa never called the trance there for goa trance. they called it simply trance. |
Some original trance is closer to techno too. Simple & trippy arpeggios, groovy basslines, techno drums etc. |
|
|
|
|
