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The double-lifer thread (pg. 7)
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| mizzuno |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
There are times where honesty is not the best policy. Thinking otherwise only serves to show that you are ignorant to a) human nature and b) the considerations that govern reasonable and prudent society. Sometimes being dishonest is the most honourable thing one can do, only sheep like obedience to an outdated and ill-conceived moral code could prevent one from recognizing that. |
I don;t want anecdotal evidence about bs moral codes, show me when lying is the best policy, if you mean to get ahead, yes you're right but then selfishness comes into play. Show me empirical proof that being dishonest is the most honourable thing, i am loathe to find a circumstance where that applies...unless one is trying to get the upper hand, which in nature is probably engrained genetically, and therefore hard to stop.
mizzuno |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by mizzuno
I don;t want anecdotal evidence about bs moral codes, show me when lying is the best policy, if you mean to get ahead, yes you're right but then selfishness comes into play. Show me empirical proof that being dishonest is the most honourable thing, i am loathe to find a circumstance where that applies...unless one is trying to get the upper hand, which in nature is probably engrained genetically, and therefore hard to stop.
mizzuno |
whoa a member from 2000
you don't see those too often:eyes:
you're like almost extinct |
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| mizzuno |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azz3D
whoa a member from 2000
you don't see those too often:eyes:
you're like almost extinct |
yeah we tend to hang out in the deep woods with the Ents and bigfoot..
;-)
Mizz1 |
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| lücid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Slylee
yea exactly. the only way 2 double lifers can live happily ever after is if they do it in moderation and if they are on the same page...that's rare. i always wanted to chill out, but he didn't...and if it's around (drugs and parties) then i'll give in. |
sooooo true!! in fact i don't even like the idea of partying unless Rob is there with me! we make such an awesome team when it comes to gettin' cracky.
the biggest thing that tweaks me out about double-lifers is... say you're hiding this partying lifestyle from your significant other, and you go off and party with your friends and get all cracked out and something goes wrong. not sayin' its very common but what if you end up dying and your husband or wife has to find out that that's how you died. imagine how terrible that would be. |
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| Vivid Boy |
| yo mizz im all for u being a mod. but theres a thingof ethics that comes with being a mod. and one of those rules of ethics is if neo banns me u must start a thread in the mod forum defending my case |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by mizzuno
I don;t want anecdotal evidence about bs moral codes, show me when lying is the best policy, if you mean to get ahead, yes you're right but then selfishness comes into play. Show me empirical proof that being dishonest is the most honourable thing, i am loathe to find a circumstance where that applies...unless one is trying to get the upper hand, which in nature is probably engrained genetically, and therefore hard to stop.
mizzuno |
There are many instances where dishonesty can be practiced as a form of alturism. You fail to recognize those because you are in all likelihood not an alturistic person, you think in terms of competition and status, subsequently those are the only positive benefits you can conceive of relating to dishonesty. Additionally, I do not know of any study that could provide empirical evidence to support my hypothosis. I would imagine there are no such studies as it would be nearly impossible to collect quantitative data regarding questions of morality..... this is an area better addressed by philosophy then science. For some philosophical perspective on morality I would refer you to Nietzche and Schopenhaurer (I'm sure I misspelt the latter). In particular Nietzche's Twillight of the Idols and Beyond Good and Evil. |
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| Floorfiller |
| i would love for you to provide a purely altruistic lie...because i really don't think you can. especially in the context of this thread. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
i would love for you to provide a purely altruistic lie...because i really don't think you can. especially in the context of this thread. |
actually, I don't believe that alturism really exists as it is part and parcel with a morality I reject, however, can you honestly tell me you have never told a lie to the benefit of another person and your own detrement? I know I have done this many times to protect those I love. |
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| Floorfiller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
actually, I don't believe that alturism really exists as it is part and parcel with a morality I reject, however, can you honestly tell me you have never told a lie to the benefit of another person and your own detrement? I know I have done this many times to protect those I love. |
well if you don't believe in altruism how can you use it as a defense? i agree there are times when you may lie in order to spare people's feelings, but even those situations on same level are selfish...whether or not its blatant. |
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| mizzuno |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
There are many instances where dishonesty can be practiced as a form of alturism. You fail to recognize those because you are in all likelihood not an alturistic person, you think in terms of competition and status, subsequently those are the only positive benefits you can conceive of relating to dishonesty. Additionally, I do not know of any study that could provide empirical evidence to support my hypothosis. I would imagine there are no such studies as it would be nearly impossible to collect quantitative data regarding questions of morality..... this is an area better addressed by philosophy then science. For some philosophical perspective on morality I would refer you to Nietzche and Schopenhaurer (I'm sure I misspelt the latter). In particular Nietzche's Twillight of the Idols and Beyond Good and Evil. |
Philosophical sophistry is the last refuge of poeple who have no way of proving what they state. We are not talking morals here. You have already made a judgement of what i think and how i think, without knowing one thing about me or my mindset. This is a good way of proving your point by demagoguing the person you are responding to.i'm not looking for studies i'm looking for an instance where your notion would be applicable, barring a selfish circumstance. you are a classic moral relativist, lotsa "big" words and names and no substance, i hope you're a teacher and not scientist or engineer cause i would never want to drive over your relativistic bridge...
Mizzzuno |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Floorfiller
well if you don't believe in altruism how can you use it as a defense? i agree there are times when you may lie in order to spare people's feelings, but even those situations on same level are selfish...whether or not its blatant. |
It's called addressing your audience..... most of the people reading this would understand and accept the concept of alturism. My personal believe is that alturism is just another form of motivated self interest, however, most people would be inclined to disagree with me. At any rate, since I was addressing Miz I attempted to use verbiage that he would understand. This is key for effective communication.
BTW, telling a lie to spare feelings would also fall into the non-selfish lie catagory, however, I agree that there are times when that is also a selfish act (as you are attempting to avoid the guilt of having hurt someone's feelings). |
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| mizzuno |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
It's called addressing your audience..... most of the people reading this would understand and accept the concept of alturism. My personal believe is that alturism is just another form of motivated self interest, however, most people would be inclined to disagree with me. At any rate, since I was addressing Miz I attempted to use verbiage that he would understand. This is key for effective communication.
BTW, telling a lie to spare feelings would also fall into the non-selfish lie catagory, however, I agree that there are times when that is also a selfish act (as you are attempting to avoid the guilt of having hurt someone's feelings). |
Maybe you should take a trip to india or china, where kharma is the pinnacle of altruism
verbiage that i would understand, if that was meant as a slight, then you have no idea who you are dealing with..
i would also like to know how you can categorically say that telling a lie to "spare" someones feelings is not selfish, again nice opinion but thats all it is..
Mizzuno |
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