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The world we live in (pg. 3)
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View this Thread in Original format
| Tag |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Eterno
To be honest tag that was indeed one of the most ignorant statements i've heard a person say. u need to understand that freedom of the press and respect to ones religion go hand in hand, im sure not every norweigan is tolerant and peaceful. if ur religous figure is placed under ridicule like that how would u feel? and how ur statement about the UD bombing all of the middle eastern countries kinda make u look like a barbaric fool which im sure u dont want do u? all i have to say to u is turn off the TV and read a book my friend, u might learn something...
Hisham |
I dont even own a tv my friend. I only get my info from reading. Norway isnt very religious, and no if anyone made fun of my beliefs im not offended and certainly not to the extent of going out and rioting. |
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| Epicurus |
It's threads like these that remind me why I don't post anything of substance anymore on this forum. After 20+ posts, I haven't seen ONE valid argument for or against the events that were precipitated by the cartoon drawings. It's either, from one side of the spectrum, people making inane comments about muslims and how they want to see them being blown up, or, from the other side of the spectrum, self-righteous apologists trying to shame the latter into submission. Of course, and as per the usual conversations about such topics on this forum, it's impossible not to come across the usual stereotypes about islam being uttered by ignorant fools, or the equally mundane drivel from the other side attempting to brandish the latter as pawns of CNN, without of course posting anything of substance in return other than "read a book", "open your mind" etc. Please, stop and think before you post stupidities, vagueries, played-out maxims and other nonsense that's not worthy of being excreted by my 5 year old cousin's .
Finally, as a disclaimer, yes I'm acting like an elitist prick right now. What exactly are you going to do about it? At the very least, I back up my claims when I make forceful commentary.
Briefly, here's what an argument would look like:
Since the cartoons were published by an independent Danish newspaper, the government of Denmark has no jurisdiction whatsover over the publications, whether legally or otherwise. It's called freedom of press in these countries, which means that the state has no control over the press. Period. End of story.
The reation by most Middle Eastern and Muslim governments is not only moronic, in the sense of demanding an official apology from the Danish government, but also ridiculously ignorant. Simply because the latter dictatorships have state control over the press and the power to censure does not mean that all countries do as well. Some countries, believe it or not, respect the seperation of state and press.
Furthermore, the reactions by some elements of Muslim society in these countries is absolutely and positively irrational. Note that again, this has NOTHING to do with islam as a religion, but clearly with certain people whose logic is lacking and who have a completely warped sense of the religion and its sayings. To demonstrate violently against Scandinavian embassies and to boycott Scandinavian products is a clear indication that these people do not understand that these Scandinavian states and businesses HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the publications of these cartoons, not can they do anything about them.
I can understand that certain elements of Muslim society were offended by the publications of these cartoons and would thus demand an official apology from the Danish newspaper that published the cartoons. Fair enough. Then protest peacefully about exactly that. Burning down foreign embassies, blaming these foreign states for the publications, targeting nationals from these countries, boycotting products and businesses from these countries, not to mention the official reactions of some Middle Eastern and Islamic countries who have recalled their Danish and Norwegian ambassadors and demanded an apology from these countries, however, is absolutely ludicrous. |
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| Spin Laden |
Clearly education teaches you to be a fence sitter, lol. Seriously, best non TA issue post I've seen on TA here, especially this para:
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
Furthermore, the reactions by some elements of Muslim society in these countries is absolutely and positively irrational. Note that again, this has NOTHING to do with islam as a religion, but clearly with certain people whose logic is lacking and who have a completely warped sense of the religion and its sayings. |
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| Marcus007 |
| See bitches, Nick's post is an exmaple of how to properly express your opinion... please leave the OMGOSH I HOPE THE US BOMBS SYRIA AND THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT I DON'T EVEN KNOW EXIST comments at home... |
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| Spin Laden |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
btw mr. arteest, how the do YOU feel about it, seeing as you are also from the middle east? :rolleyes: |
He (who started this thread) is hiding in the TOTA Superbowl one :D |
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| Tag |
tag=pwned
but dissappointed in marcus who never comments until someone older and wiser does and than he simple follows. bah bah marcus |
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| Aureus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tag
if anyone made fun of my beliefs im not offended and certainly not to the extent of going out and rioting. |
+1 |
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| Aureus |
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
It's threads like these that remind me why I don't post anything of substance anymore on this forum. After 20+ posts, I haven't seen ONE valid argument for or against the events that were precipitated by the cartoon drawings. It's either, from one side of the spectrum, people making inane comments about muslims and how they want to see them being blown up, or, from the other side of the spectrum, self-righteous apologists trying to shame the latter into submission. Of course, and as per the usual conversations about such topics on this forum, it's impossible not to come across the usual stereotypes about islam being uttered by ignorant fools, or the equally mundane drivel from the other side attempting to brandish the latter as pawns of CNN, without of course posting anything of substance in return other than "read a book", "open your mind" etc. Please, stop and think before you post stupidities, vagueries, played-out maxims and other nonsense that's not worthy of being excreted by my 5 year old cousin's .
Finally, as a disclaimer, yes I'm acting like an elitist prick right now. What exactly are you going to do about it? At the very least, I back up my claims when I make forceful commentary.
Briefly, here's what an argument would look like:
Since the cartoons were published by an independent Danish newspaper, the government of Denmark has no jurisdiction whatsover over the publications, whether legally or otherwise. It's called freedom of press in these countries, which means that the state has no control over the press. Period. End of story.
The reation by most Middle Eastern and Muslim governments is not only moronic, in the sense of demanding an official apology from the Danish government, but also ridiculously ignorant. Simply because the latter dictatorships have state control over the press and the power to censure does not mean that all countries do as well. Some countries, believe it or not, respect the seperation of state and press.
Furthermore, the reactions by some elements of Muslim society in these countries is absolutely and positively irrational. Note that again, this has NOTHING to do with islam as a religion, but clearly with certain people whose logic is lacking and who have a completely warped sense of the religion and its sayings. To demonstrate violently against Scandinavian embassies and to boycott Scandinavian products is a clear indication that these people do not understand that these Scandinavian states and businesses HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the publications of these cartoons, not can they do anything about them.
I can understand that certain elements of Muslim society were offended by the publications of these cartoons and would thus demand an official apology from the Danish newspaper that published the cartoons. Fair enough. Then protest peacefully about exactly that. Burning down foreign embassies, blaming these foreign states for the publications, targeting nationals from these countries, boycotting products and businesses from these countries, not to mention the official reactions of some Middle Eastern and Islamic countries who have recalled their Danish and Norwegian ambassadors and demanded an apology from these countries, however, is absolutely ludicrous. |
+2 :gsmile: |
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| Caela |
| quote: | Originally posted by RnakR
i don't see any women in these manifestations :eyespop:
100% guys |
i'd throw my opinion out there, but i'm less than knowledgable about the particulars, so i'll spare sounding like an ass :p all i know is that it's completely overly-violent to torch something over a friggin cartoon. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Epicurus
Furthermore, the reactions by some elements of Muslim society in these countries is absolutely and positively irrational. Note that again, this has NOTHING to do with islam as a religion, but clearly with certain people whose logic is lacking and who have a completely warped sense of the religion and its sayings. To demonstrate violently against Scandinavian embassies and to boycott Scandinavian products is a clear indication that these people do not understand that these Scandinavian states and businesses HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the publications of these cartoons, not can they do anything about them.
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Everything in your post is good, but you explain the troubles in these countries (Lebanon especially) as simple unexplainable chaos.
These drawings are only a motive by some radical elements in these countries to create , to "wake" old hatred that seems dormant.
They're not unexplainable, and not chaotic at all.
You gotta take these caricatures at face value, nothing more.
Are these caricatures the first of human history of their prophet? Can anyone here prove that?
p.s. I'm very worried of the now happening in Lebanon, the hatred is now not only turned against scandinavians, but against Christian Lebanese... does that country need a civil war right now? |
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| vano |
who ever paid for those publications certainly attained its goal ... everyone hates those "evil doers" now ...
bravo |
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| Epicurus |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
Everything in your post is good, but you explain the troubles in these countries (Lebanon especially) as simple unexplainable chaos.
These drawings are only a motive by some radical elements in these countries to create , to "wake" old hatred that seems dormant.
They're not unexplainable, and not chaotic at all.
You gotta take these caricatures at face value, nothing more.
Are these caricatures the first of human history of their prophet? Can anyone here prove that?
p.s. I'm very worried of the now happening in Lebanon, the hatred is now not only turned against scandinavians, but against Christian Lebanese... does that country need a civil war right now? |
I never meant to explain the troubles in these countries as chaotic or random. I was simply expressing the point of view that viewed objectively, the reaction of these people is irrational, in the sense that they're blaming an essentially blameless government for the publication of these cartoons, when the government has no jurisdiction whatsoever over their publications. In other words, my use of the term "irrational" was not meant to convey "without cause or reason", but to convey the thought that according to the objective facts and evidence, these people reacted contrary to what logic would have dictated.
Now, in terms of why they acted in such a manner, you make a good point, and you won't get any disagreement from me. I agree that radical elements within Islamic society seized this opportunity to stir up, as you said, although I'm starting to worry about the increasing size of these elements within Islamic society. Though there are many distinguished Muslim scholars that have pushed for a modern or moderate interpretation of Islam, they are seemingly in the minority these days, as reflected by the growing radicalization of Islam amongst the masses, who are increasingly supporting radical Islamic groups, such as in Palestine, Egypt, Algeria and so forth. Though I understand very well the reasons behind this phenomenon (a combination of poverty and western imperialism and its extensions), this current state of affairs is rather unfortunate.
As a side note, this is not the first time that caricatures or depictions of the Prophet Muhammad have been published. Five years ago, Time Magazine also published something along those lines (though less offensive). Click here
Now with regards to Lebanon, I wouldn't be surpised if the situation continues to degenerate, as it has over the past 6 months or so, although I doubt (hope) a civil war will break out in the future. I have a lot more to say about that, but I don't want to hijack the thread :p |
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