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When's Iran gonna get bombed? (pg. 10)
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by d!abolic
Israel wasn't created by war. Israel was created by the UN. SPeaking of war, that's the only reason Palestine lost their land. If they hadn't ATTACKED Israel when it was formed, Israel wouldn't have had a reason to kick the out of them and create the buffer zone. Learn your history. |
Isreal is ed anyways,they are surrounded by arabs and the Palestinian population is growing very fast.I can see why Isreal is sooo paranoid all the time,I would be too.
Long Live Palestine |
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| TRANCEEEE |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Long Live Palestine |
+1 :crazy: |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by d!abolic
Israel wasn't created by war. Israel was created by the UN. SPeaking of war, that's the only reason Palestine lost their land. If they hadn't ATTACKED Israel when it was formed, Israel wouldn't have had a reason to kick the out of them and create the buffer zone. Learn your history. |
Wow I think that's the first time you've made a valid point on here that I've seen. :)
Little John:
I already mentioned that I may be biased earlier on. You're forgetting one thing, however; "Palestine" never existed as a physical country. It was titled that by Britain for a while, but it was never anything but a territory. If you're going to go into the whole "look to the past" idea of things, then you may as well look at the Diaspora - it's very much the same idea - "Well it was Israel's land first". It's evident that Israel's been granted the land it has posession of for a reason, an agreement by those who controlled the land at the time - it was not "stolen" but rather granted. |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Isreal is ed anyways,they are surrounded by arabs and the Palestinian population is growing very fast.I can see why Isreal is sooo paranoid all the time,I would be too.
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You have a very skewed image of how things are in Israel - people don't live in fear of losing their lives every day; there's a very VERY small paranoia factor. |
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| tempoman |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Isreal is ed anyways,they are surrounded by arabs and the Palestinian population is growing very fast.I can see why Isreal is sooo paranoid all the time,I would be too.
Long Live Palestine |
If you were white and born in the states, I would guarantee with that you would be saying. Sand ******s.
You are just as bad as the people you hate. Both sides are too busy shouting slogans and are too arrogant to find middle gound, thus perpetuating the circle of hate and violence. |
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| VERTiG0 |
So if somebody were to say " them both, turn the entire area into a parking lot," what would you guys say?
That's not my opinion, I'm just wondering. |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by tempoman
If you were white and born in the states, I would guarantee with that you would be saying. Sand ******s.
You are just as bad as the people you hate. Both sides are too busy shouting slogans and are too arrogant to find middle gound, thus perpetuating the circle of hate and violence. |
It is a fault of both sides, but I'm inclined to say that it's moreso the Arab side of the argument that isn't willing to find a middle ground. At one point Ehud Barak (former prime minister of Israel) offered a HUGE amount of Israel to them in exchange for peace, but they declined and said "No, we want this and this part too". Sadly, I'm starting to believe there is no middle ground, and it's not going to end until someone's been hit hard - and if/when that happens, it's not going to make life pleasant for anyone in the entire world. |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by VERTiG0
So if somebody were to say " them both, turn the entire area into a parking lot," what would you guys say?
That's not my opinion, I'm just wondering. |
I think that's actually a pretty damn good question but that's probably what's going to become of it eventually anyways (though it likely won't be as nicely paved :p ) . To be deathly honest, I doubt the place can stay up forever, just looking at the situation the region is in now it's like someone's just WAITING for the wrong move to be made which would result in everything falling apart and being left in ashes.
If that parking lot idea were to come about in a literal form, you'd have huge uprises from around the world as it's the center of several religions - and we already know what forms of trouble can arise from religious issues. Going into "what would happen to the people" issues... well I think they'd all end up killing eachother anyways; that's as blunt as it gets. |
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| Little John |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shade
You're forgetting one thing, however; "Palestine" never existed as a physical country. It was titled that by Britain for a while, but it was never anything but a territory. If you're going to go into the whole "look to the past" idea of things, then you may as well look at the Diaspora - it's very much the same idea - "Well it was Israel's land first". It's evident that Israel's been granted the land it has posession of for a reason, an agreement by those who controlled the land at the time - it was not "stolen" but rather granted. |
Palestine, the land was owned by Muslims for most of its existence. So what if it didn’t have its own country, it was still not what is known to be today as Israel.
The land of Israel was owned by the three major religions of that area. Stating that, it can be said that the land of Israel was "GRANTED" for Jews, of which became Christians, Muslims and others that remained to be Jews (what is today’s meaning).
The Granted terms under the British rule after WW2 were for a peaceful coexistence between all religions to live under free religious intent. Not a single Jewish state. After British mandate had ended, a war took place for the land.
The religious rights of the land all steamed from the Jewish faith, that later changed into a belief of which religion was following the true word of GOD. Who are Jews to say they have the rights to the land when all three religions claim they have chosen the right path, of which was steamed from the Jewish religion?
How can one person say that they have rights to the land?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it was Jews who claimed Jesus was the “showing” of God and later became what is known to be today as “Christians” and the same can be said for Muslims who believed in their god. That being said, who can say “what is a true Jew”? Can Christian say it? Can Muslims say it? Can today’s Jews say it?
I feel the current state of Israel should be transformed into a free state that does not possess any “one” religious meaning. How would you feel if you were a Christian or Muslim living in a land that is at the heart of your religion that fly’s a flag of the Jewish religion? |
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| tempoman |
I can see how the Jews would want to go back to the Holy Land. They were in posession of the land during the King David times. Then Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome all came along causing the diaspora. If you truly do believe God has given the land to you, I can understand the need and want for a Jewish state.
I can also understand how Palestinians who had settled in the land for a couple thousand years are being displaced by the Jews. Then everything escalates with a couple of wars, and border crossings etc.
It is a complicated issue and both sides have valid arguements. The issue of Palestinian/Israeli land ownership can't be settled easily. |
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| Shade |
| quote: | Originally posted by Little John
Palestine, the land was owned by Muslims for most of its existence. So what if it didn’t have its own country, it was still not what is known to be today as Israel.
The land of Israel was owned by the three major religions of that area. Stating that, it can be said that the land of Israel was "GRANTED" for Jews, of which became Christians, Muslims and others that remained to be Jews (what is today’s meaning).
The Granted terms under the British rule after WW2 were for a peaceful coexistence between all religions to live under free religious intent. Not a single Jewish state. After British mandate had ended, a war took place for the land.
The religious rights of the land all steamed from the Jewish faith, that later changed into a belief of which religion was following the true word of GOD. Who are Jews to say they have the rights to the land when all three religions claim they have chosen the right path, of which was steamed from the Jewish religion?
How can one person say that they have rights to the land?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it was Jews who claimed Jesus was the “showing” of God and later became what is known to be today as “Christians” and the same can be said for Muslims who believed in their god. That being said, who can say “what is a true Jew”? Can Christian say it? Can Muslims say it? Can today’s Jews say it?
I feel the current state of Israel should be transformed into a free state that does not possess any “one” religious meaning. How would you feel if you were a Christian or Muslim living in a land that is at the heart of your religion that fly’s a flag of the Jewish religion? |
You certainly made valid points here. And the truth behind it: I don't care what symbol is there, I agree it should be a free society (essentially a utopian society) but that simply doesn't exist in this world.
I myself, am Jewish by birth, though my own beliefs are those of agnosticism. I'm very skeptical with regards to any religious belief, and I feel it's important that people follow whatever they believe in as long as it's not conflicting with anyone else's belief in a harmful manner. Religion, in my opinion, was created for the purpose of having moral and in some cases scientific guidelines to life. The important thing to realize about what I've just said, is that religion is NOT something that should be followed without question or to the point where you're livign your life based on looking too far into something that wasn't made to be looked at so intently. People overanalyze religion and make it out to be more than it is, and I think it's overall a dumb idea to create a state or country surrounding a religion.
Look at the situation at the time, however, and realize that the level of religious discrimination that went on throughout the years was immense, especially with regards to Jews. It was ideal to turn it into a Jewish state after they'd won their war of independence because in many cases, while the Nazi regime was over, the negative attitude still existed and Jews still weren't accepted in many places. This isn't to say I condone the birth of a Jewish state or anything of the sort, but it exists, and there's no use in constantly posing threats and arguing about it.
In answer to your question of whether there are any people who are "True Jews" today - I think that lies too far in interpretation and can be manipulated in so many ways that it's pretty much worthless to talk about. I don't think there are "True" anythings in the world, but again, as I've mentioned, I'm a serious skeptic when it comes to anything religious.
Hope that clears up my position on it all. I really wish the world could be all nice and perfect and nobody would have religious arguments and claim religion to be their reasoning for attacks and all sorts of pointless things. Sadly however, the world is far from perfect, and there will always be idiots until the time that nothing remains. |
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