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What tracks seems to get more than it deserves? (pg. 18)
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| paulandrews |
Taken from the thread "What are your Top 5 vocal tracks of all time":
| quote: | Originally posted by Progrezzion
#1) Clear Blue Water- Oceanlab Feat. Justine Suissa
#2) Ghosts- The Tenth Planet
#3) As the Rush Comes- G&D
#4) Forces of Gravity- BT (Ferry Corsten remix)
#5) Tracking Treasure Down- G&D |
Do I really need to carry on? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
I guess Ferry Corsten heard thousands of records in his life and he played TTD, so your theory is wrong there. |
I know he played it for a Mixmag cover disc where the magazine chooses half the tracklist. Also, you willingly ignore the words: for example. I was giving an example of why not everyone's opinion is equal. Anyone with half a brain should be able to realise that there are other contributing factors to the matter.
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
Ok, why it recieves praise then?? |
1. Because it's from a big name and is played by other big names.
2. Because some people treat music which stays in your head as good music.
3. Because some people have taste. |
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| paulandrews |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I know he played it for a Mixmag cover disc where the magazine chooses half the tracklist. Also, you willingly ignore the words: for example. I was giving an example of why not everyone's opinion is equal. Anyone with half a brain should be able to realise that there are other contributing factors to the matter. |
Of course there are other factors but youīve just mentioned this one, so I had to prove you itīs not that easy as you say.
| quote: |
1. Because it's from a big name and is played by other big names.
2. Because some people treat music which stays in your head as good music.
3. Because some people have taste. |
Thatīs your opinion, because you canīt prove it as there arenīt any official rules that would state what youīve written (good/bad)... blah, blah, blah.. Iīm tired of it, itīs endless and thereīs no truth here, just opinions presented as a truth. And the opinions canīt be proved. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
Of course there are other factors but youīve just mentioned this one, so I had to prove you itīs not that easy as you say. |
I didn't say it was as "easy" as anything. I cited an example of why tastes can be of different worth. It never implied to be a definitive explanation, as evidenced by "for example". As I've already said.
| quote: | | Thatīs your opinion, because you canīt prove it as there arenīt any official rules that would state what youīve written (good/bad)... blah, blah, blah.. Iīm tired of it, itīs endless and thereīs no truth here, just opinions presented as a truth. And the opinions canīt be proved. |
No. You'd be amazed how much difference the player or maker of a record can be. Example: In 1993, The Prodigy had gained a reputation as making cheesy, mainstream music. They were being snubbed as the inevitable popularity backlash set in. The next Prodigy record was released on white with the alias Earthbound (the name of the Prodigy's studio at the time). Everyone went nuts for the record, and were then shown up when it came out officially under The Prodigy alias.
Everyone on TA can give you examples of how a big name DJ spinning a track can get a better crowd reaction than a no-name jock spinning the same track, often in front of the same audience.
Again, some people will simply say they like music because it has stayed in their head. When you put them to the sword they'll just mumble "It's catchy" or whatever, because they know it's a bit crap, but they listen to it anyway.
And finally, some people have tastes. It's a fact: get over it. People have biases, people have poor attention spans, people are unreceptive to ideas, people judge things arbitrarily, people like music for the most shallow reasons, people are affected by the tastes of others, people are affected by hype, people make illogical exceptions, people just don't listen to music deeply and sometimes people just like music. |
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| paulandrews |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
No. You'd be amazed how much difference the player or maker of a record can be. Example: In 1993, The Prodigy had gained a reputation as making cheesy, mainstream music. They were being snubbed as the inevitable popularity backlash set in. The next Prodigy record was released on white with the alias Earthbound (the name of the Prodigy's studio at the time). Everyone went nuts for the record, and were then shown up when it came out officially under The Prodigy alias. |
Itīs because people are biased, their prejudice canīt make the record sound better/worse.
| quote: | | Everyone on TA can give you examples of how a big name DJ spinning a track can get a better crowd reaction than a no-name jock spinning the same track, often in front of the same audience. |
Ok, I would be the first one to say this, but still this has nothing to do with the track itself. People react better because they see their favourite dj, they scream even before he lays the first vinyl on the deck.
| quote: | | Again, some people will simply say they like music because it has stayed in their head. When you put them to the sword they'll just mumble "It's catchy" or whatever, because they know it's a bit crap, but they listen to it anyway. |
Itīs because all the elitist who are trying to ridicule everyone who listens to the cheesy music. People shouldnīt be ashamed to say "I like cheesy music" if itīs true. Again, this has nothing to do with the music itself, itīs because of the conditions that were made by people.
| quote: | | And finally, some people have tastes. It's a fact: get over it. People have biases, people have poor attention spans, people are unreceptive to ideas, people judge things arbitrarily, people like music for the most shallow reasons, people are affected by the tastes of others, people are affected by hype, people make illogical exceptions, people just don't listen to music deeply and sometimes people just like music. |
There is no good/ taste. |
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
Itīs because people are biased, their prejudice canīt make the record sound better/worse. |
Exactly. Just because people like a track doesn't mean it's good.
| quote: | | Ok, I would be the first one to say this, but still this has nothing to do with the track itself. People react better because they see their favourite dj, they scream even before he lays the first vinyl on the deck. |
Once again, you've hit the nail on the head. A track becomes famous not by its own merits but because a DJ plays it who gets cheers while the stylus is still up. Where else would it get the fame if it were crap?
| quote: | | Itīs because all the elitist who are trying to ridicule everyone who listens to the cheesy music. People shouldnīt be ashamed to say "I like cheesy music" if itīs true. Again, this has nothing to do with the music itself, itīs because of the conditions that were made by people. |
If people would just accept that they enjoy meritless tripe, yes, things would go a lot smoother. But very few people want to admit that. The thing is, a lot of elitists, whom you seem so annoyed with, actually do enjoy a cheesy or unoriginal track or two, they just know that they only like it because it's catchy. They know it is specifically designed to get stuck in their head. They don't try to pass it off as the most amazing song ever. The problem with TTD is that people actually do this. They try to laud the song's writing, production, composition, etc, even though it's all-around just bad: made solely because it follows a tested formula that for some reason works in clubs. |
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| paulandrews |
| quote: | Originally posted by thoughtlessjex
Exactly. Just because people like a track doesn't mean it's good. |
Ok, now weīre talking about what exactly good/ means. I think there can exist well-produced cheese and badly-produced track, which does not appeal to the masses. And still, if someone likes a track, it MUST be produced well SOMEHOW.
| quote: | | Once again, you've hit the nail on the head. A track becomes famous not by its own merits but because a DJ plays it who gets cheers while the stylus is still up. Where else would it get the fame if it were crap? |
If itīs really a track which gets the support then yes, the track becomes famous and if itīs really it shouldnīt recieve any praise. Famous does not mean overrated.
| quote: | | If people would just accept that they enjoy meritless tripe, yes, things would go a lot smoother. But very few people want to admit that. The thing is, a lot of elitists, whom you seem so annoyed with, actually do enjoy a cheesy or unoriginal track or two, they just know that they only like it because it's catchy. They know it is specifically designed to get stuck in their head. They don't try to pass it off as the most amazing song ever. The problem with TTD is that people actually do this. They try to laud the song's writing, production, composition, etc, even though it's all-around just bad: made solely because it follows a tested formula that for some reason works in clubs. |
Yes, I know that, you just canīt help yourself sometimes because the tune is so catchy and you like it and know itīs cheesy at the same time (at the saaame tiiiime :tongue2). For me, itīs f.e. that Racoon/Armin tune nowadays, itīs terribly cheesy but still the vocals hooked me up. But this time, it should be the good cheese, as Iīve mentioned.
This is more a cultural problem. Itīs a human construction of something which does not exists, just because weīre experienced we think we can say whatīs good or bad and our experience is the only thing we can hold onto. And imo thatīs not enough when weīre talking about art. |
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| SPANIARD |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Yes! How dare he rip off a track that came out several years later than Blue Fear?
Oh wait... |
You win this round Mr.Mystery. Both tracks are awful so I feel no reason to retract my comments.:tongue2 |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cloud
Blue Fear rocks |
Absolutely. |
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulandrews
Ok, now weīre talking about what exactly good/ means. I think there can exist well-produced cheese and badly-produced track, which does not appeal to the masses. And still, if someone likes a track, it MUST be produced well SOMEHOW. |
Well-produced cheese is cheese, nevertheless. The problem is when people try to say the cheese is anything more than cheese. That's when a track becomes overrated.
And cheese doesn't have to be well-anything. It has to appeal by all means necessary, and cheese in particular appeals by ripping off methods that have already been shown to be appealing.
| quote: | | If itīs really a track which gets the support then yes, the track becomes famous and if itīs really it shouldnīt recieve any praise. Famous does not mean overrated. |
I know that. I received a commendable on Venn Diagrams in the fifth grade. However, all overrated tracks are famous. Otherwise they couldn't be overrated.
It's true that there is good and bad cheese. But the distinction for good and bad cheese is different than that of good and bad trance. Good cheese is just fun. Good trance is more than that. Unfortunately, for TTD, people try to pass it off as good trance, and it certainly doesn't fit that bill. |
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