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Qana (pg. 11)
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronk
first of all, the one who didn't prove points by figures here is you. you said there is a constant of 63%-73% who oppose Hamas' goal of eliminating Israel (till the war broke). that is not true, the polls results range from 20.9% to 62.9%, when in the month before the war broke off (June) 53.5% opposed Hamas' goal.
second of all, the polls hard figures didn't prove that it was Israel's actions that led to an increase in support for Hamas' policy. you chose to interpret them like that. you again forget what were the reasons behind Israel's retaliation (I'll help you: the kidnapping and killing of soldiers). the polls show that 73.8% of the palestinians supported a peace settlement with Israel before the kidnapping. you also said that only factions of Hamas did not want that peace settlement, and kidnapped that soldier because they knew what Israel's response would be. well if the palestinians really wanted peace I say they should've done something to prevent the (pretty much predicted) Israeli retaliation, like oppose those factions or protest against them. but wait a second, why has Hamas cooperated with those factions, instead of returning the soldier and completing the peace process?
well, according to the polls, the month before the kidnapping happened the majority of the palestinians supported Fatah (34.8%) while Hamas support reduced to 27.1%.
so I think Hamas thought they should do something to regain their support, and they kidnapped Shalit knowing that Israel's retaliation would reduce the support for peace settlement, and increase the support in them.
so if you look at the big picture, Hamas caused (apparently deliberately) a retaliation from Israel after its troops kidnapped a soldier and killed two more. that led to more hatred towards Israel from the palestinians and more support from them to Hamas and its goal - eliminate Israel.
I think you should read the article again.
well that's only your opinion. I know that settlements from the West Bank have been evacuated - fact.
I can't really tell, but even the extremists aren't that twisted.
as for your question, it's unfair because it's a complex situation. Israel wants both to rescue Shalit and also to "teach Hamas a lesson" - that we will not tolerate such actions in the future (most people forget that two soldiers were also killed in that incident, and that Kassam rockets also have been launched into Israel at that time).
edited - something I forgot to add. |
RonK, don't waste your time and energy on this George Smiley tool - the only facts that matter to him are the ones that match his ed up, biased views. You know the type - the kind of people that only hear what they want to hear? He would not notice a REAL fact even if it sat on his face and farted into his mouth.
The only difference between our Hardcore Prancer and our Boy George here - is that Hardcore Prancer is an "out of the closet antisemite" while Georgie here hides behind "facts" and "truths" that are only in line with his views. Lord forbid you tried to shatter that. FINKELSTEIN is comming out!!! OOOOOOO!!!!! :nervous: |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by ronk
first of all, the one who didn't prove points by figures here is you. you said there is a constant of 63%-73% who oppose Hamas' goal of eliminating Israel (till the war broke). that is not true, the polls results range from 20.9% to 62.9%, when in the month before the war broke off (June) 53.5% opposed Hamas' goal.
second of all, the polls hard figures didn't prove that it was Israel's actions that led to an increase in support for Hamas' policy. you chose to interpret them like that. you again forget what were the reasons behind Israel's retaliation (I'll help you: the kidnapping and killing of soldiers). the polls show that 73.8% of the palestinians supported a peace settlement with Israel before the kidnapping. you also said that only factions of Hamas did not want that peace settlement, and kidnapped that soldier because they knew what Israel's response would be. well if the palestinians really wanted peace I say they should've done something to prevent the (pretty much predicted) Israeli retaliation, like oppose those factions or protest against them. but wait a second, why has Hamas cooperated with those factions, instead of returning the soldier and completing the peace process?
well, according to the polls, the month before the kidnapping happened the majority of the palestinians supported Fatah (34.8%) while Hamas support reduced to 27.1%.
so I think Hamas thought they should do something to regain their support, and they kidnapped Shalit knowing that Israel's retaliation would reduce the support for peace settlement, and increase the support in them.
so if you look at the big picture, Hamas caused (apparently deliberately) a retaliation from Israel after its troops kidnapped a soldier and killed two more. that led to more hatred towards Israel from the palestinians and more support from them to Hamas and its goal - eliminate Israel. |
Well if you can work that out why can't your government?! If you think that Hamas kidnapped that soldier to gain more support (for their goal to eliminate Israel) would you help them get that support!? Crazy!
And yes, that is how I interpret those poll results. But it wouldn't matter, they show that Palestinians are capable on mass of supporting an end to Hamas' goal of eradicating Israel
| quote: | | I think you should read the article again. |
Again would suggest I read it in the first place! Either way it makes no difference, one story says one thing, another says another. My point was merely that whatever caused those deaths, the Israeli army was ordered to stop shelling while they investigated, which means the Israeli army were, well, shelling Palestine!
| quote: | | well that's only your opinion. I know that settlements from the West Bank have been evacuated - fact. |
All the settlements need to be evacuated. I know that sounds tough but there are all sorts of problems associated with them that hinder the Palestinians (and not to mention the security threat they pose to Israel itself!)
| quote: | I can't really tell, but even the extremists aren't that twisted.
as for your question, it's unfair because it's a complex situation. Israel wants both to rescue Shalit and also to "teach Hamas a lesson" - that we will not tolerate such actions in the future (most people forget that two soldiers were also killed in that incident, and that Kassam rockets also have been launched into Israel at that time). |
"Teach Hamas a lesson" or teach the population of Gaza a lesson for supporting Hamas? |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
RonK, don't waste your time and energy on this George Smiley tool - the only facts that matter to him are the ones that match his ed up, biased views. You know the type - the kind of people that only hear what they want to hear? He would not notice a REAL fact even if it sat on his face and farted into his mouth. |
And the difference between what you describe above and yourself is?
| quote: | | The only difference between our Hardcore Prancer and our Boy George here - is that Hardcore Prancer is an "out of the closet antisemite" while Georgie here hides behind "facts" and "truths" that are only in line with his views. Lord forbid you tried to shatter that. FINKELSTEIN is comming out!!! OOOOOOO!!!!! :nervous: |
Awww bless...are you upset that your religion (like every other religion in the world) is nothing more than a few make belief fairy tales? :( |
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Awww bless...are you upset that your religion (like every other religion in the world) is nothing more than a few make belief fairy tales? :( |
Actually - I'm agnostic, as I mentioned before. But being Jewish is in many ways like a nationality - it's a set of traditions, heritage, etc. I don't go to synagogue (aside from major holidays, sporatically), I don't keep koshrut on many occasions, I'm what you'd call a "Holiday Jew". I also feel that religion is not what makes me Jewish. So different fairytales are exactly just that - fairytales. If you care to read some of my older posts, I already stated that religion was either a twisted joke or experiment gone wrong. It was a poor attempt at law in the days of lawlessness.
Say you don't have a large police force, you don't have telecommunications, you don't have a well-established justice system, not much of an enforcement. So, what do you do? You say that there's a big guy up there who watches everything you do and he will punish you if we don't. And just to make sure that we put some fear into you - we'll do some spectacular sacrifices to him by throwing people into lava or killing some of you in his name.
My two most favorite books that shed some interesting light on religion are:
Terry Pratchett - Small Gods
and his buddy
Neil Gayman - American Gods
for some light hearted reading on the appocalypse (how appropriate) - their collaboration Good Omens is definitely a terrific read.
p.s. my wife is Christian. pssssssssssstt;) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
Actually - I'm agnostic, as I mentioned before. But being Jewish is in many ways like a nationality - it's a set of traditions, heritage, etc. I don't go to synagogue (aside from major holidays, sporatically), I don't keep koshrut on many occasions, I'm what you'd call a "Holiday Jew". I also feel that religion is not what makes me Jewish. So different fairytales are exactly just that - fairytales. If you care to read some of my older posts, I already stated that religion was either a twisted joke or experiment gone wrong. It was a poor attempt at law in the days of lawlessness.
Say you don't have a large police force, you don't have telecommunications, you don't have a well-established justice system, not much of an enforcement. So, what do you do? You say that there's a big guy up there who watches everything you do and he will punish you if we don't. And just to make sure that we put some fear into you - we'll do some spectacular sacrifices to him by throwing people into lava or killing some of you in his name.
My two most favorite books that shed some interesting light on religion are:
Terry Pratchett - Small Gods
and his buddy
Neil Gayman - American Gods
for some light hearted reading on the appocalypse (how appropriate) - their collaboration Good Omens is definitely a terrific read.
p.s. my wife is Christian. pssssssssssstt;) |
I didn't think you were wasting any more time with me because I'm anti-Semitic :rolleyes:
So, if you are an unreligious Jew (which I guess means you are just an Arab!), do you agree that any Biblical claim to any territory by Israel is invalid, and only contemporary, security claims are valid? And if you agree with that, do you agree that the Settlements should be dismantled due to the security threat they pose to Israel?
ps. I have read Small Gods and it's very good and in this context very telling!
pps. If your wife is Christian would that make her an Israeli Arab? And if so does that not effect your perspective on the rest of the Arabs of Israel and Palestine (of whom a proportion are Christians themselves, including some high profile terrorists!) |
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| emc^2 |
George, here's my version of Finkelstein: Dennis Miller. Circa 2003:
Dennis Miller ia a Christian and a TV entertainer who had a Show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO.
Here's what he had to say way back in 2003:
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"A brief overview of the situation is always valuable, so as a service to all who still don't get it, I now offer you the story of the Middle East in just a few paragraphs, which is all you Really need.
Here we go:
The Palestinians want their own country.
There's just one thing about that: There are no Palestinians.
It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine for two thousand years.
Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is really a modern Invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank Was owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you know, say hello to the Palestinians," weeping for Their deep bond with their lost "land" and "nation."
So for the sake of honesty, let's not use the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who dance for joy at our Deaths until someone points out they're being taped. Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs Who Can't Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal Struggle And Death."
I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters." Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more thing. No, they don't.
They could 've had their own country any time in the last thirty years, Especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to Figure out some way to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters in the region Want: Israel.
They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of course -- that's where The real fun is -- but mostly they want Israel.
Why? For one thing, trying to destroy Israel - or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it -- for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on G-d's Earth, and if you've ever been around G-d's Earth, you know that's really saying something.
It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our pundits waxes poetic about. The great history and culture of the Muslim Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to the world since Algebra, and, By the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that one.
Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five Million Jews.
Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a Pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, Everyone will be pals.
Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.
My friend Kevin Rooney made a gorgeous point the other day: Just reverse the Numbers. Imagine five hundred million Jews and five million Arabs. I was stunned at the simple brilliance of it.
Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the Worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.
Mr. Bush, God bless him, is walking a tightrope. I understand that with vital operations in Iraq and others, it's in our interest, as Americans, to try to stabilize our Arab allies as much as possible, and, after all, that can't be much harder than stabilizing a Roomful of supermodels who've just had their drugs taken away.
However, in any big-picture strategy, there's always a danger of Losing moral weight.
We've already lost some. After September 11 our president told us and the world he was going to root out all terrorists and the Countries that supported them. Beautiful. Then the Israelis, after months and months of having the equivalent of an Oklahoma City every week (and then every day) start to do the same thing we Did, and we tell them to show restraint.
If America were being attacked with an Oklahoma City every day, we would all very shortly be screaming for the administration to just be done with it and kill everything south of the Mediterranean and East of the Jordan.
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
I didn't think you were wasting any more time with me because I'm anti-Semitic :rolleyes:
So, if you are an unreligious Jew (which I guess means you are just an Arab!), do you agree that any Biblical claim to any territory by Israel is invalid, and only contemporary, security claims are valid? And if you agree with that, do you agree that the Settlements should be dismantled due to the security threat they pose to Israel?
ps. I have read Small Gods and it's very good and in this context very telling!
pps. If your wife is Christian would that make her an Israeli Arab? And if so does that not effect your perspective on the rest of the Arabs of Israel and Palestine (of whom a proportion are Christians themselves, including some high profile terrorists!) |
I'm Ukrainian Jew, living in US. My wife is Armenian Christian.
As far as biblical claims to land - I could give two s. What I care about that one side wants to live in peace. The other side would have none of it under any circumstances. You figure out which one is which, I'm sure you could - I'll give you that much credit. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
George, here's my version of Finkelstein: Dennis Miller. Circa 2003:
Dennis Miller ia a Christian and a TV entertainer who had a Show called Dennis Miller Live on HBO.
Here's what he had to say way back in 2003:
Source |
Wow. That's one of the most ignorant, stupid, racist articles I've ever read. And the fact that you chose that one article, out of everything you could have presented me with to back up your argument, says a lot about you.
So there are no Palestinians? Ok fine, so what are the Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza called? And what is to be done with them and their land?
| quote: | | I'm Ukrainian Jew, living in US |
I'm glad for you. I'm glad you don't live over there where your life would be in danger and that you can afford to have such radical views knowing full well you won't have to live with the consequences. And I'm glad you can sit there on the other side of the world talking about a region and a group of people you seemingly have no knowledge of (as demonstrated by your choice of article and the following...
| quote: | | As far as biblical claims to land - I could give two s. What I care about that one side wants to live in peace. The other side would have none of it under any circumstances. You figure out which one is which, I'm sure you could - I'll give you that much credit. |
Well polls suggest the vast majority of Palestinians want peace and support a two state solution. I would also suggest that there is a similar proportion of Israelis who support the settlers and settlements as there are Palestinians opposed to peace (because to support the settlements is to oppose peace)
As for your article:
| quote: | | Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshaling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab State into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the Worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death. |
Jewish terrorist groups exist and committ acts of violence. The second point is irrelevant. Settlers (and their supporters) celebrate acts of Jewish terrorism. The Israeli/American propaganda machine has successfully convinced huge numbers of people that all Muslims support Islamic terrorism (they quote the Koran as proof) and that all Palestinians oppose peace (as demonstrated by the Palestinians rejection of two settlements hugely in Israel's favour)
You really need to open your eyes and do some of your own research before commenting on Israel, Palestine or the Arabs of Palestine, not just regurgitating your right-wing propaganda machine tells you to believe... |
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Wow. That's one of the most ignorant, stupid, racist articles I've ever read. And the fact that you chose that one article, out of everything you could have presented me with to back up your argument, says a lot about you.
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Yup. I'm really heart-broken over your dissapointment.
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So there are no Palestinians? Ok fine, so what are the Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza called? |
Jordanians, Egyptians, Iranians, Syrians, Lebanese, Turks, Sauidis, Beduins, and other Arab nationalities. Can you please tell me what language do they speak in Palestine? What's their national dish? Can you please let me know about the Palestinian (and only palestinian) customs?
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And what is to be done with them and their land?
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I haven't agreed with you that it is THEIR land yet.
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I'm glad for you. I'm glad you don't live over there where your life would be in danger and that you can afford to have such radical views knowing full well you won't have to live with the consequences. And I'm glad you can sit there on the other side of the world talking about a region and a group of people you seemingly have no knowledge of (as demonstrated by your choice of article and the following...
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Wow, a proverbial pot calling a kettle black? Do you live over there? You seem to be quite concerned for someone who not only does not live there but has not even stepped on the land he tries to portray he knows so well! That's a bit hypocritical coming from you, don't you think?
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Well polls suggest the vast majority of Palestinians want peace and support a two state solution. I would also suggest that there is a similar proportion of Israelis who support the settlers and settlements as there are Palestinians opposed to peace (because to support the settlements is to oppose peace)
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The level of sensles poll quoting leaves me to believe that you actually believe what you read. It's one thing to have polls but it's another to implement it in real life. If you believe the polls, you'd think that George W. should not be the president of US. Yet, there he is.
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As for your article:
Jewish terrorist groups exist and committ acts of violence. The second point is irrelevant.
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yeah - I am sure it does. there's a difference, as I numerously pointed out - the government does not let them run free and does everything possible to curb it. Nothing of the sort is happening on the other side.
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Settlers (and their supporters) celebrate acts of Jewish terrorism.
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Where the do you get that pile of rubbish from? Oh - I bet its one of thsoe reliable sources. The ones that dance in the streets after Jews, Christians, or "Crussaders" die in large numbers. You are soooooo ing blind or dellirious it's beyond any comprehension or measurement.
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The Israeli/American propaganda machine has successfully convinced huge numbers of people that all Muslims support Islamic terrorism (they quote the Koran as proof) and that all Palestinians oppose peace (as demonstrated by the Palestinians rejection of two settlements hugely in Israel's favour)
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American/Israeli propaganda ain't got on your Hamas/Hizzbolah/Iranian propaganda machine that has you lapping up all the bull like a starved man would lap up anything edible.
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You really need to open your eyes and do some of your own research before commenting on Israel, Palestine or the Arabs of Palestine, not just regurgitating your right-wing propaganda machine tells you to believe... |
Likewise. But "left - wing, socialist, hippie bull".
You don't know Jack, sir - and no ammount of quoting your "reliable" sources would convince me or any other sober person. Luckily, your kind is in minority - and rightfully so. Whatever, I'm tired of arguing with you - it's like trying to empty a swamp with a coffee mug. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
Jordanians, Egyptians, Iranians, Syrians, Lebanese, Turks, Sauidis, Beduins, and other Arab nationalities. Can you please tell me what language do they speak in Palestine? What's their national dish? Can you please let me know about the Palestinian (and only palestinian) customs? |
They speak Arabic. Which is the official language of every Middle Eastern country including Israel. Not that I see the relevance? Like I said, new states are born all the time, like in Africa or the Balkans. History is irrelevant. The territories Israel occupies are no longer Jordan or Egypt. A shared 50 year history and experiences has created this new nationality, just like a new Israeli nationality was created. But you didn't answer my question did you? What do you call the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza? ONE WORD...
| quote: | | I haven't agreed with you that it is THEIR land yet. |
So tell me who you think the land belongs to then?
| quote: | | Wow, a proverbial pot calling a kettle black? Do you live over there? You seem to be quite concerned for someone who not only does not live there but has not even stepped on the land he tries to portray he knows so well! That's a bit hypocritical coming from you, don't you think? |
I don't call for the continued killing of innocents. You do. My solutions, if they work, prevent the murder of innocent Palestinians and Israelis. You seem to not give a about either due to your comfy location well away from the fighting. The difference between you and me is I care about all innocents, you only care about your own kind (otherwise known as a racist)
| quote: | | The level of sensles poll quoting leaves me to believe that you actually believe what you read. It's one thing to have polls but it's another to implement it in real life. If you believe the polls, you'd think that George W. should not be the president of US. Yet, there he is. |
Then I guess it's ironic that the polls I quote were provided by an Israeli poster on here to justify his (and your) positions (he just didn't look at his own source too well)
| quote: | | yeah - I am sure it does. there's a difference, as I numerously pointed out - the government does not let them run free and does everything possible to curb it. Nothing of the sort is happening on the other side. |
There's a difference in government, not in the ed up Islamic and Jewish fundamentalists are prepared to do...
| quote: | | Where the do you get that pile of rubbish from? Oh - I bet its one of thsoe reliable sources. The ones that dance in the streets after Jews, Christians, or "Crussaders" die in large numbers. You are soooooo ing blind or dellirious it's beyond any comprehension or measurement. |
Well funnily enough from a source already used in this thread
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...1856469,00.html
Maybe you would now like to retract your comments above?
| quote: | American/Israeli propaganda ain't got on your Hamas/Hizzbolah/Iranian propaganda machine that has you lapping up all the bull like a starved man would lap up anything edible.
Likewise. But "left - wing, socialist, hippie bull".
You don't know Jack, sir - and no ammount of quoting your "reliable" sources would convince me or any other sober person. Luckily, your kind is in minority - and rightfully so. Whatever, I'm tired of arguing with you - it's like trying to empty a swamp with a coffee mug. |
My opinions and information come from independant personal research and my education. Not from right-wing fascist US/Israeli propaganda nor right-wing fascist Iranian propaganda.
I might ask you where you get your opinions from? You can answer me a), b) or c)...
a) Independant personal research/education
b) Right-wing fascist US/Israeli propaganda
c) Right-wing fascist Iranian propaganda |
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
What do you call the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza? ONE WORD...
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Umm.... Arabs? The unsorted variety? 
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So tell me who you think the land belongs to then?
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Israel. Or Egypt. Or Jordan. Not Palestinians. Yet neither country - Egypt or Jordan lay any claim to it. Yet.
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I don't call for the continued killing of innocents. You do.
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You probably have reading and comprehension problem - as I don't. Numerously did I point it out but you're too thick-headed to comprehend it.
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My solutions, if they work, prevent the murder of innocent Palestinians and Israelis. You seem to not give a about either due to your comfy location well away from the fighting. The difference between you and me is I care about all innocents, you only care about your own kind (otherwise known as a racist)
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Repeat it like mantra - it might make sense. And stop putting words in my mouth and attributing that is obviously has not been stated nor implied. Please, feel free to quote me on the passages which led you to such brilliant conclusion.
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There's a difference in government, not in the ed up Islamic and Jewish fundamentalists are prepared to do...
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Um... which part of GOVERN-MENT does not make sense? is it the "GOVERN" PART?
Oh yes - RELIABLE BRITISH SOURCES! What's next - reuters? the guardian? BBC? stick your left-wing sources up your arse and smoke 'em.
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My opinions and information come from independant personal research and my education. Not from right-wing fascist US/Israeli propaganda nor right-wing fascist Iranian propaganda.
I might ask you where you get your opinions from? You can answer me a), b) or c)...
a) Independant personal research/education
b) Right-wing fascist US/Israeli propaganda
c) Right-wing fascist Iranian propaganda |
[/quote]
I'll take option A. As hard as you find it to believe. Though, for someone who claims that he does his personal research, you do quote quite a few leftist sources. If you consider it an unbiased research you need to check your head.
Dude, are you practicing for your debate class or something? Srsly - I'm tired of arguing with you, it's pointless. You only see what you want to see, hear what you want to hear, and have understanding that only works along the lines of your perceptions.
I'm done - consider your argument won. I got no more time to waste on you, it's ing pointless. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
Umm.... Arabs? The unsorted variety? |
Not an answer - one word, give me your label of the Arabs living in the occupied territories
| quote: | | Israel. Or Egypt. Or Jordan. Not Palestinians. Yet neither country - Egypt or Jordan lay any claim to it. Yet. |
Egypt and Jordan do not lay claim to those territories. So that leaves you with Israel. So if you believe Israel owns the land, what do you propose to do with all the Arabs that live there?
| quote: | | You probably have reading and comprehension problem - as I don't. Numerously did I point it out but you're too thick-headed to comprehend it. |
You support the settlements and you appear to believe the occupied territories belong to Israel. While ever you support those positions you are supporting the continued murder of Palestinians and Israelis. Like I said, you don't care, all you care about is the symbolism and getting revenge (sod how many Israelis die in the process so you can sit back and relax in America)
| quote: | | Repeat it like mantra - it might make sense. And stop putting words in my mouth and attributing that is obviously has not been stated nor implied. Please, feel free to quote me on the passages which led you to such brilliant conclusion. |
You have been skirting round the issue of what to do with the Arabs that live in the occupied territories since you first started debating. It's pretty obvious you think Israel "owns" the land, so when you tell me what is to be done with the Arabs that live there, then I shall either confirm or retract what I said above...over to you
| quote: | | Um... which part of GOVERN-MENT does not make sense? is it the "GOVERN" PART? |
Sounds like your deliberately avoiding the issue (which suggests you support Jewish terrorism?) The issue was NEVER about governments, the issue was about what Muslims were prepared to do that your article suggests Jewish people could never be capable of. I have provided sources earlier in this thread to suggest otherwise. So stop avoiding the issue and perhaps give me your view on Jewish terrorists - do you support them?
| quote: | | Oh yes - RELIABLE BRITISH SOURCES! What's next - reuters? the guardian? BBC? stick your left-wing sources up your arse and smoke 'em. |
This is where you make yourself look stupid. The Times is a right wing paper. Not only that it is one of the most prestigious papers in the UK. It is like the NY Times or Washington Post in that respect. But thanks for your racist comments about the British. Just goes further to highlight what other people are begining to see about you. Your opinions are formed from your racist views, and therefore, anything you have to say is invalid.
| quote: | | I'll take option A. As hard as you find it to believe. Though, for someone who claims that he does his personal research, you do quote quite a few leftist sources. If you consider it an unbiased research you need to check your head. |
Of course you'd chose option A because nobody likes admitting they are a racist fascist. However, unless you can give me some evidence that option A is true, I'll remain convinced you're just a worthless racist.................. |
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