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Qana (pg. 6)
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| CHRles |
| On dozens of occasions if I'm not mistaken. |
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| Yoepus |
| quote: | Originally posted by qussay
@ danish prophet of doom .....:rolleyes:
even if the death toll is 10 from the Qana bombing ,look at what israel is doing for 3 kidnapped soldiers....... or wait , is that real reason ???? |
Sure but your one sidedness (as Trancaholic claims) is over evident in this statement alone.
Why not ask in a similar vien, "look at what Hizbullah and Hamas are allowing the people of Lebanon and the disputed territories have to endure for 3 kidnapped soldiers?"
Is the death and destruction that Hamas and Hizbullah brought to their nations they claim to be defendants of, really worth kidnapping 3 soldiers? What political goals that they claim they repersent have they acheived through kidnappings? Nothing but destruction.
Quiet easy to point the finger at Israel, and yes their response has been exagerated and overwhelming, but at any instant this could all be ended. Release the 3 kidnapped soldiers and you will see how Israel stops. In a way, releasing the 2 soldiers now will be the best move Hizbullah could do as it will force Israel to stop its incursion into Lebanon dead in its track, ensuring Hizbullah still remains a power in Lebanon. Israel will be forced to stop their mission of destroying or severely limiting Hizbullah short (as the mission of this war has evolved into within the first days of the war where it was clear would not return its soldiers).
But as Qana is emerging to be quiet clear, Hizbullah makes a facad of actually caring about the people of Lebanon, this is not truly their interest and I think this will become more and more apparent to the arabs and the world as large as they continue in their stubborness. |
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| Shakka |
Yoepus, a major problem (which all of us know but few acknowledge) is with the media and the way they shape public opinion. As Tony Blair said, we need to stop apologizing for our positions.
| quote: | The media aims its missiles
By TOM GROSS
Large sections of the international media are not only misreporting the current conflict in Lebanon. They are actively fanning the flames.
The BBC World Service has a strong claim to be the number one villain. It has increasingly come to sound like a virtual propaganda tool for Hizbullah, and as it desperately attempts to prove that Israel is guilty of committing "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity," it has introduced a new charge - one which I have heard several times on air in recent days.
The newscaster reads out carefully selected "audience comments," and among these we are told that "Israel's attack on Lebanon" will serve as "a huge recruitment drive for al-Qaida worldwide." But if anything is going to win new recruits for bin Laden and his like, it will not be Israel's defensive actions, which are far less damaging than western TV stations have been trying to convince us, but the inflammatory and hopelessly one-sided way in which they are being reported by those very same news organizations.
While the slanted comments and interviews are bad enough, the degree of pictorial distortion is even worse. The way many TV stations worldwide are portraying it, you would think that Beirut has begun to look like Dresden and Hamburg in the aftermath of World War II air raids.
International television channels have used the same footage of Beirut over and over, showing the destruction of a few individual buildings in a manner which suggests that half the city has been razed.
A careful look at aerial satellite photos of the areas targeted by Israel in Beirut shows that certain specific buildings housing Hizbullah command centers in the city's southern suburbs have been singled out.
Most of the rest of Beirut, apart from strategic sites like airport runways used to ferry Hizbullah men and weapons in and out of Lebanon, has been left pretty much untouched.
From the distorted imagery, selective witness accounts, and almost round-the-clock emphasis on casualties, you would be forgiven for thinking that the level of death and destruction in Lebanon is on a par with that in Darfur, where Arab militias are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of non-Arabs, or with the 2004 tsunami that killed half a million in Southeast Asia.
In fact Israel has taken great care to avoid killing civilians - even though this has proven extremely difficult and often tragically impossible, since members of Hizbullah, the self-styled "Party of God,"
have deliberately ensconced themselves in civilian homes. Nevertheless the civilian death toll has been mercifully low compared to other international conflicts in recent years.
THE BBC, which courtesy of the British tax payer is the world's biggest and most lavishly funded news organization, would of course never reveal how selective their reports are, since this might spoil their campaign to demonize Israel and those who support her. But one senior British journalist, working for another company, last week let slip how the news media allows its Mideast coverage to be distorted.
CNN "senior international correspondent" Nic Robertson admitted that his anti-Israel report from Beirut on July 18 about civilian casualties in Lebanon, was stage-managed from start to finish by Hizbullah. He revealed that his story was heavily influenced by Hizbullah's "press officer" and that Hizbullah has "very, very sophisticated and slick media operations."
When pressed a few days later about his reporting on the CNN program "Reliable Sources," Robertson acknowledged that Hizbullah militants had instructed the CNN camera team where and what to film. Hizbullah "had control of the situation," Robertson said. "They designated the places that we went to, and we certainly didn't have time to go into the houses or lift up the rubble to see what was underneath."
Robertson added that Hizbullah has "very, very good control over its areas in the south of Beirut. They deny journalists access into those areas. You don't get in there without their permission. We didn't have enough time to see if perhaps there was somebody there who was, you know, a taxi driver by day, and a Hizbullah fighter by night."
Yet "Reliable Sources," presented by Washington Post writer Howard Kurtz, is broadcast only on the American version of CNN. So CNN International viewers around the world will not have had the opportunity to learn from CNN's correspondent that the pictures they saw from Beirut were carefully selected for them by Hizbullah.
Another journalist let the cat out of the bag last week. Writing on his blog while reporting from southern Lebanon, Time magazine contributor Christopher Allbritton, casually mentioned in the middle of a posting: "To the south, along the curve of the coast, Hizbullah is launching Katyushas, but I'm loathe to say too much about them. The Party of God has a copy of every journalist's passport, and they've already hassled a number of us and threatened one."
Robertson is not the only foreign journalist to have shown viewers Hizbullah-selected footage from Beirut.
NBC's Richard Engel, CBS's Elizabeth Palmer, and a host of European and other networks, were also taken around the damaged areas by Hizbullah minders. Palmer commented on her report that "Hizbullah is also determined that outsiders will only see what it wants them to see."
Palmer's honesty is helpful. But it doesn't prevent the damage being done by organizations like the BBC.
First the BBC gave the impression that Israel had flattened the greater part of Beirut. Then to follow up its lop-sided coverage, its website helpfully carried full details of the assembly points for an anti-Israel march due to take place in London, but did not give any detail for a rally in support of Israel also held in London a short time later.
THE COVERAGE of the present war by the BBC has been quite extraordinary, and even staunch BBC supporters in London seem rather embarrassed - in conversation, not on the air, unfortunately.
If the BBC were just a British problem that would be one thing, but it is not. No other station broadcasts so extensively in dozens of languages, on TV, radio and online.
Its radio service alone attracts over 163 million listeners. It pours forth its worldview in almost every language of the Middle East: Pashto, Persian, Arabic and Turkish.
It is not just that the supposed crimes of Israel are completely overplayed, but the fact that this is a two-sided war (started, of course, by Hizbullah) is all but obscured. As a result, in spite of hundreds of hours of broadcast by dozens of BBC reporters and studio anchors, you wouldn't really know that hundreds of thousands of Israelis have been living in bomb shelters for weeks now, tired, afraid, but resilient; that a grandmother and her seven-year old grandson were killed by a Katyusha during a Sabbath dinner; that several other Israeli children have died.
You wouldn't have any real understanding of what it is like to have over 2000 Iranian and Syrian rockets rain down indiscriminately on towns, villages and farms across one third of your country, aimed at killing civilians.
You wouldn't really appreciate that Hizbullah, far from being some rag-tag militia, is in effect a division in the Iranian revolutionary guards, with relatively advanced weapons (UAVs that have flown over northern Israel, extended-range artillery rockets, anti-ship cruise missiles), and that it has a global terror reach, having already killed 114 people in Argentina.
The BBC and others have carried report after report on the damaged Lebanese tourist industry, but none on the damaged Israeli one, even though at least one hotel in Tiberias on the Sea of Galilee, was hit by a Hizbullah rocket. There are reports on Lebanese children who don't know where they will be going to school, but none on Israeli ones.
The relentless broadcast attacks on Israel have led to some in the print media indulging in explicit anti-Semitism.
Many have grown accustomed to left-wing papers like the Guardian allowing their Mideast coverage to spill over into something akin to anti-Semitism. For example, last month a cartoon by the Guardian's Martin Rowson depicted Stars of David being used as knuckle dusters on a bloody fist.
Now the Conservative-leaning Daily Telegraph, Britain's best-selling quality daily, and previously one of the only papers in Europe to give Israel a fair hearing, has got in on the act. The cartoon at the top of the Telegraph comment page last Saturday showed two identical scenes of devastation, exactly the same in every detail. One was labeled: "Warsaw 1943"; the
other: "Tyre, 2006."
A politician had already given the cue for this horrendous libel. Conservative MP Sir Peter Tapsell told the House of Commons that British Prime Minister Tony Blair was "colluding" with US President George Bush in giving Israel the okay to wage a war crime "gravely reminiscent of the Nazi atrocity on the Jewish quarter of Warsaw."
THE PICTURE isn't entirely bleak. Some British and European politicians, on both left and right, have been supportive of Israel. So have some magazines, such as the Spectator. So have a number of individual newspaper commentators.
But meanwhile anti-Semitic coverage and cartoons are spreading across the globe. Norway's third largest paper, the Oslo daily Dagbladet, ran a cartoon comparing Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to the infamous Nazi commander SS Major Amon Goeth who indiscriminately murdered Jews by firing at them from his balcony and was depicted by Ralph Fiennes in Steven Spielberg's film Schindler's List. (A month earlier Dagbladet published an article, "The Third Tower," which questioned whether Muslims were really responsible for the September 11 attacks.)
Antonio Neri Licon of Mexico's El Economista drew what appeared to be a Nazi soldier with stars of David on his uniform. The "soldier" was surrounded by eyes that he had apparently gouged out.
A cartoon in the South African Sunday Times depicted Ehud Olmert with a butchers knife covered in blood. In the leading Australian daily The Age, a cartoon showed a wine glass full of blood being drunk in a scene reminiscent of a medieval blood libel. In New Zealand, veteran cartoonist Tom Stott came up with a drawing which equated Israel with al-Qaida.
At least one leading European politician has also vented his prejudice through visual symbolism. Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero wore an Arab scarf during an event at which he condemned Israel, but not Hizbullah, who he presumably thinks should not be stopped from killing Israelis.
It's entirely predictable that all this violent media distortion should lead to Jews being attacked and even murdered, as happened at a Seattle Jewish center last week.
When live Jews can't be found, dead ones are targeted.
In Belgium last week, the urn that contained ashes from Auschwitz was desecrated at the Brussels memorial to the 25,411 Belgian Jews deported to Nazi death camps. It was smashed and excrement smeared over it.
The silence from Belgian leaders following this desecration was deafening.
Others Jews continued to be killed in Israel itself without it being mentioned in the media abroad. Last Thursday, for example, 60-year-old Dr. Daniel Ya'akovi was murdered by the Aqsa Martyrs‚ Brigade, the terrorist group within Fatah that Yasser Arafat set up five years ago using European Union aid money. But this is far from being an exclusively Jewish issue.
Some international journalists seem to find it amusing or exciting to bait the Jews. They don't understand yet that Hizbullah is part of a worldwide radical Islamist movement that has plans, and not pleasant ones, for all those - Muslim, Christian, Hindu and Jew
- who don't abide by its wishes. |
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| ronk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Yoepus, a major problem (which all of us know but few acknowledge) is with the media and the way they shape public opinion. As Tony Blair said, we need to stop apologizing for our positions. |
good article, one of the best I've read in a long time.
it's (accidentally) similar to my post yesterday, saying that the BBC is a kind of propaganda tool. |
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| Dj Alex (ISR) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
On dozens of occasions if I'm not mistaken. |
Apparantly it's 10, killing one person and wounding one person (but don't quote me on that is was what somebody heard an IDF source say on BBC radio but I don't have any sources to confirm it, or who the IDF source was) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
GeorgeSmiley, I understand what you're saying about Afghanistan in the 80s, and even the Iran-Iraq war back then.
Back then the West was worried, based on what had happened in previous decades, that communism would gain even more power throughout the world. That is why some "guerilla organizations" and dictators who are today seen as major threat were once semi-backed by the West. Well, back then the West had more immediate threats to worry about.
While the Soviet Union has disbanded and America and Russia are on much friendlier terms these days, and while the US has become close with the other major communist power, China, it seems the problem of terrorism has only increased. Terrorism in the name of religion and ultra-conservative values. I think that, regardless of whether or not at this point in time there was a sovereign Jewish state backed by the West, this clash between religions and cultures would be taking place. |
Can you explain why this clash would occur without Israeli activities and American involvement in the Middle East???
| quote: | BTW, even within Israel, you have the more secular Jews and the more religious/orthodox ones. Most Arabs don't realize this, but even if Israel acheives a true peace with all of its neighbors it would still have to deal with its own problem of religious verrsus secular ideologies. The same seems to be true in America where you have a growing gap between the liberal left, and the conservative right.
Is the whole world perhaps becoming less "moderate" and moving into two sub-camps? :conf: |
My Middle Eastern lecturer told us that there is a real 'conflict' within Israeli society between the ultra-orthadox Jews (of the settlements and Jerusalem) and the moderates of the North (eg in Tel Avib) He said that it was like two seperate states within a state. And like you say, America is an extremely religious place (unlike Western Europe) and has a similar 'intensity' of religion as the Middle East |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Yes, I got that point. I was just wandering how it related to internal threats against the regime. AFAIK the US have yet to help a Middle East regime fight back an uprising among its people? |
Well Egypt receives a lot of aid from America and I suppose that would include the sale of arms which in turn are used to suppress the Muslim Brotherhood. Pakistan is a good example following 9/11 (altho how genuine the Pakistani government is to combating the Islamist elements there is debateable) However, the point is, there is no way America can allow countries with oil to fall into enemy hands. Saudi Arabia has the most oil, and receives the most aid after Israel. Can you imagine how it would affect the global economy should factions unfriendly to America gain control there? If they refused to sell oil at whatever price to America? No way is America gonna let that happen and it's one of the reasons for the Iraq war (and hostility against Iran) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shakka
Yoepus, a major problem (which all of us know but few acknowledge) is with the media and the way they shape public opinion. As Tony Blair said, we need to stop apologizing for our positions. |
Works both ways tho (as your article makes a fine job of proving ;) ) |
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dunya
if the us didn't support the zionists they were dead already |
I bet that would make you happy, you daft kunt. Now, go back to the kitchen and make those ing kosher belgian waffles like I told you! And fetch me my beer, you wretched wench!
p.s.
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| emc^2 |
It's sickening to read what media has been spewing lately. I used to listen to BBC until I started following their radio shows of the current conflict. I didn't need a lengthy article to realize the BBC's lopsided reporting. Not even mentioning that they were responsible for putting together a nice little documentary for HBO - something like "Children of Palestine" or smth like that. Basically showed bunch of palestinian kids whose parents or relatives or even themselves have been harmed by IDF. It was a clear anti-Israeli propaganda movie and it was done several years ago.
I'm sickened by the fact that Jews are more hated around the world than savages that want to murder the rest of so-called infidels (jews being the top priority).
Europe is a ing disgracing hole when it comes to reporting accurate news. , even American media begins to take after their European counterparts.
Well, if anything - I think the current situation has only done more to solidify Jewish community around the world. We know that antisemites are never going to seize to exist as long as we're around.
I guess what would make these savage beasts, and cunnts like Dunya happy is if we were all gone. But did you ever ask yourself a question - why do you hate us so?
Hope Israel stands firm and fights till every last one of these bastards is gone. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by emc^2
I guess what would make these savage beasts, and cunnts like Dunya happy is if we were all gone...
Hope Israel stands firm and fights till every last one of these bastards is gone. |
Hmmmmmm...and that would make you a? |
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