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Miller wants to tear down Gardiner (pg. 4)
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| mute79 |
lol, the viaduct would be an even bigger eye-sore than the current gardiner..
i'm all for dismantling it and replacing it with a boulevard if they can't finance burying it.. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by mute79
lol, the viaduct would be an even bigger eye-sore than the current gardiner..
i'm all for dismantling it and replacing it with a boulevard if they can't finance burying it.. |
Question,
Do you drive?
Next question, if you drive do you use the gardiner often? |
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| nacarter |
None of the scenarios involving the Gardiner are all that great. Yes, the Gardiner is an ugly stretch of highway. However, this really only matters to the Lakeshore Revitalization people who are completely out to lunch anyways. We've already mentioned the problem of condos already acting as a barrier to viewing the lake. Then let's toss in the problems with people on the island trying to live in a noise vacuum. Anythinn that's built that would attract people to the lakeshore will be protested by island residents because of the potential noise. I think it's about time to kill the revitalization pipe dream.
Burying it sounds like a good idea, but isn't economically feasible. It would take at least 5 years (many experts are quoting closer to 10) to build, traffic would be chaotic, and the project would be stalled midway through while municipal politicians renegotiate with new federal and provincial governments to continue the funding. Sounds like the 'Big Dig' all over again.
The Viaduct Plan has the same problem as the existing Gardiner, it would be an eyesore. Let's face it, concrete isn't pretty.
Repairs and upgrades on the existing structure are already costly and as the roadway ages, these costs will only continue to climb.
The Gardiner was an ill-conceived highway, in an age where highways were seen as the cure-all to traffic congestion. Now Torontonians are stuck with zero good options and a lot of politicking. |
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| Jayx1 |
the viaduct appears to be more like abuilding with a highway on top. It would also become a landmark.
Various structures like the brooklyn bridge and golden gate show us that highways can be done properly and turned into a landmark/tourist attraction. |
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| Jayx1 |
How did i know that toronto would turn the montreal collapse into an opportunistic call to tear down the gardiner?
These idiots just wont rest until toronto traffic is in even more chaos it seems
Credit to milelr for not jumping on that bandwagon, yet. But shame on the media for trying to stir unnecissary BS.
| quote: | As safety inspections continue in Quebec following the weekend collapse of a Laval viaduct that claimed five lives, questions are being raised over whether Torontonians face a similar risk when they take to the roads.
Toronto spends between $10 million and $12 million each year maintaining its streets and overpasses, including the Gardiner Expressway. However, chunks of concrete have fallen from the busy highway in the past and engineers caution that it could happen again.
The future of the Gardiner was discussed in city council last week when a report was released detailing the cost of several options including maintaining it, tearing down part of it, or replacing it with a tunnel. Maintenance is tabbed at about half a billion dollars, while the most expensive option, building a tunnel, would reportedly cost about $2 billion.
The Gardiner is 60 years old and carries 16,000 vehicles a day. Some experts say it's not unusual to have pieces of concrete fall off it, as was the case in February of 1999 when a large chunk fell from the highway's underside.
"It can be any size of concrete falling off. I mean it could be a little piece, (or) it can be a big rock," said engineer Jose Gutierrez.
Drivers around the GTA didn't seem too concerned about the possibility of the Laval scenario replaying itself in Toronto.
"In general I think it's unlikely to happen," said one motorist, Sergio. "I wouldn't worry about that."
Mayor David Miller says road collapses like the one that occurred at Bathurst St. and Sheppard Ave. in April are uncommon.
"Our bridges are inspected annually and for the first time in a very long time this year we started addressing the backlog in road repairs and I'm proud of that investment," Miller said.
City officials say Toronto's 530 bridges are inspected in detail by structural engineers annually and checked daily to make sure they're safe.
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
How did i know that toronto would turn the montreal collapse into an opportunistic call to tear down the gardiner?
These idiots just wont rest until toronto traffic is in even more chaos it seems
Credit to milelr for not jumping on that bandwagon, yet. But shame on the media for trying to stir unnecissary BS. |
btw. i emailed the Viaduct plan co-ordinator and receieved a response which I posted a few posts earlier .. interesting to know that Pitfield supports the idea, tho i'm still surprised that there was no mention in the recent Star article about it..
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
btw. i emailed the Viaduct plan co-ordinator and receieved a response which I posted a few posts earlier .. interesting to know that Pitfield supports the idea, tho i'm still surprised that there was no mention in the recent Star article about it..
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because the star wants miller to win |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
How did i know that toronto would turn the montreal collapse into an opportunistic call to tear down the gardiner?
These idiots just wont rest until toronto traffic is in even more chaos it seems
Credit to milelr for not jumping on that bandwagon, yet. But shame on the media for trying to stir unnecissary BS. |
yep bandwagon jumpers, they could've used any of the overpasses that collapsed in the USA in the last few years as examples instead if it was a valid argument. |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
yep bandwagon jumpers, they could've used any of the overpasses that collapsed in the USA in the last few years as examples instead if it was a valid argument. |
not to mention the Boston BigDig tunnel collapse..
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| Orko |
Ha, the Gardiner made Wired.com's list of
'10 Highways That Should Be Razed Now'
| quote: | * Alaskan Way Viaduct, Seattle, WA – (pictured) Built in 1953, this north-south route along Seattle's Elliot Bay stands between the city and an open Seattle waterfront.
* Sheridan Expressway, Bronx, NY – Known as I-895 and built in 1963, it was designed to connect the Bruckner Expressway with the New England Thruway in the Bronx, but local opposition limited it to a one-mile road that mars the Bronx River waterfront.
* Skyway and Route 5, Buffalo, NY – Built in 1953, this 1.4-mile long, 110-foot tall bridge begins at the Inner Harbor downtown, crosses the Buffalo River and touches down as Route 5 in the Outer Harbor. It blocks access to the waterfront, and there is no pedestrian access between downtown and the Outer Harbor.
* Route 34 - New Haven, CT – This highway begins at the junction of Interstates 95 and 91 and extends on columns into downtown New Haven for 1.1 miles, but plans to extend the road another 10 miles were never realized. Six hundred families were displaced to make room for this project, which was built in 1959.
* Claiborne Expressway, New Orleans, LA – In the 1950s, this highway rolled over one of New Orleans' thriving African-American communities. With construction of the more direct I-610 in the 1970s, calls for the removal of the Claiborne have been increasing.
* Interstate 81, Syracuse NY – When Interstate 81 was finished in the late 1950s it destroyed an African-American community, and today is an eyesore that does little to promote growth in downtown Syracuse.
* Interstate 64, Louisville, KY – This six-lane highway separates downtown Louisville from its waterfront. In 2003, the Federal Highway Administration proposed a $4.1 billion expansion of I-64, which has been loudly opposed by area activists.
* Route 29, Trenton, NJ – This four-lane road runs along the Delaware River and has a higher-than-average rate of collisions. Its removal would pave the way for a mixed-use waterfront development.
* Gardiner Expressway, Toronto, ON – Finished in 1966, this eight-lane highway separates downtown Toronto from its waterfront and costs $10 million a year to maintain.
* 11th Street Bridges and the Southeast Freeway, Washington, D.C. – The Southeast Freeway is a 1.39-mile stretch of freeway running through Washington, D.C., built in the late 1960s. It connects Interstate 395 to Interstate 295 at the 11th Street Bridges and was prevented from continuing west due to local opposition at the time. |
So not just Canadians that think it's a pain in the ass, and an incredible eye sore. |
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| DigiNut |
Um yeah, you might have mentioned that this was actually one one of their writer's blogs, not wired.com, and it's not original writing, it just references a piece by the Congress for the New Urbanism, which describes itself as "the leading organization promoting walkable, neighborhood-based development as an alternative to sprawl." Their site is chock full of buzzwords like "sustainable". Here's another gem:
| quote: | | Transportation plays a pivotal role in sustainability and truly efficient transportation – walking, bicycling, and transit use – is only possible where there is compact, urban form. |
In other words, you're quoting someone who quoted an environmentalist group which spells out clearly that it wants cars off the roads. What a surprise that they want a bunch of highways to be torn down!
Well done. You've convinced me. |
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| lol internet |
they should rebuild it, and charge a fare for use. so it encourages commuting as well.
before people start going nuts and saying why should we have to pay for it, well its because the city has to pay for the gardiner, not the federal government. this way, after its been rebuilt, the tolls can go to doing the onward repairs/maintenance for it, and theyre should be cash to be spent on something else instead of 40 years later, lets spend another billion dollars to rebuild it. |
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