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UCLA student: Tased and Confused (pg. 4)
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| TheDemon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
When did quoting people who were actually there become such an issue?
Who the hell cares WHAT board they're on? :rolleyes:
You're clouding the fact that SOMEONE FROM THAT BOARD WAS THERE.
Look, if a cop tells you to get out of your car, do you sit there, scream at him and NOT expect consequences? Come on, use your brain man...
Sorry, I'm not buying this whole multiple tazer = police brutality bull either.
The whole reasoning for the tazer in the first place was so that law enforcement didn't have to use a world of hurt with batons and such.
It's quite evident from the people from the school, and those that where actually there, that this guy deserved it.
Let's not let the asshat's defiance and whelps strum the kumbiya chords too hard when in the land of reality, he really is getting what he deserved.
If you have the energy for defiance and physobabble about, 'Patriot Act', then you have the energy to get up, IMHO (and obviously the cops thought the same).
If getting up was such an issue, and you can't comply with the order to stand up, THEN HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD THEM THAT instead of continuing to mouth off.
Opus, I thought you were a lot more preceptive that this... |
Yo , why don't you come say this to my face. who the you calling an asshat, huh? Its police brutality you loser. :whip: |
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| Marc Summers |
| quote: | Originally posted by TheDemon
Yo , why don't you come say this to my face. who the you calling an asshat, huh? Its police brutality you loser. :whip: |
Calm down :) |
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| josh4 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Marc Summers
Calm down :) |
Hey f-you man don't tell him to calm down! I'll beat you up punk! |
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| TheDemon |
| quote: | Originally posted by josh4
Hey f-you man don't tell him to calm down! I'll beat you up punk! |
its all cool man, the guy means well. but its not cool to say the guy deserved it. Iam Iranian myself. I feel real bad for the guy, he had to be going through hell. |
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| Lilith |
This sort of thing anywhere else.
A scenario someone being handcuffed, on the floor being told what too do and repeatedly hit with electric shocks counts as being torture as far as I'm concerned. Thats not brutality, its torture.
Over an ID card.
Not a gun or weapon and I'm fairly sure you'd have too have collected some kind of harrassment too the point where he's upset enough to feel scared enough too try and yell his way out of it and thus contribute enough for what looked like around three cops too feel threatened too repeatedly electrocute him while he's handcuffed?
No, thats just some serious problem right there.
I mean really, most of you are grown young men and how intimidated do you feel with two companions either side of you against one person?
Probably not very threatened at all.
Now, say theres three of you and the guy who's threatening you cant use his arms and 'winded' by an electric shock and cant stand up?
Heck even I'm not scared at this point.
Repeatedly hitting him with electric shocks at this point where you've got one person who's incapable of doing anything too hurt you is torture.
The fact theres at least three security goons there means they could carry him out physically and resolve the issue without electrocuting the man on the ground.
The other fact is, something like not having an ID card which is a petty matter in most schools, could not be resolved by simple reasoning with someone and never gotten too the point where they handcuff and repeatedly electrocute that person for five minutes. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by TheDemon
Yo , why don't you come say this to my face. who the you calling an asshat, huh? Its police brutality you loser. :whip: |
No, it's not.
The police where doing their job.
If you read the comments from the other board, from witness accounts the local campus patrol asked this guy to leave before the cops with the tazer showed up.
At what point do you enforce authority? Should they pulled out their batons and beat him?
I'm sure we'd all be singing a different tune if that happened; hence the tazering instead.
It may not SOUND more humane (which everyone is got their feathers ruffled about) but it's definitely a whole lot less of a world of hurt in the long run.
The fact that had to tazer him several times should some indication of the level of the tazering, not trigger some knee-jerked reaction of police brutality.
If he had brought out the batton, which it sounds like could have been an option, I'd have to side with you TheDemon but that simply isn't the case.
The guy was defiant and the cops had to do their job.
That's about all that's news here.
[edit]
Just to disclaimer myself so if it comes down, that's I'm wrong and the cops are the duchebags and this guy is innocent, then I appologize, however, from my research and the comments from people that were actually there, it's no looking likely... |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
When did quoting people who were actually there become such an issue?
Who the hell cares WHAT board they're on? :rolleyes:
You're clouding the fact that SOMEONE FROM THAT BOARD WAS THERE.
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My grandmother was there too. Shall I bring about an email from the internets on her account on what did and did not happen?
Oh, your dad was there too humping a donkey in row 5. Eyewitness accounts from a forum discovered him with his pants down.
Of course the donkey noise gave it away too.
Finally, one guy was there from the forum ConservativesAreAssHats.com who said the whole thing was a Republican setup designed to deliberately fire up its base from core forum supports such as the one you cited above.
You believe me, right? Because I also have "eyewitnesses" from the internets whom were right there too.
I'll tell ya what - why don't we go off of what was given in the following:
a. Police report that has yet to be completed
b. News reports from actual witnesses whom were there and will hopefully give sworn testimony later.
Granted, "b." is not a perfect situation, but it's better than going off an " all librul whiners" forum from Joe ing Schmoe who claims to have seen everything.
And besides, correct me if I'm wrong, but please point out in that forum where it states that he wasn't jolted multiple times while being handcuffed on the ground.
And please don't give me that asshat line from the kid who says it feels ing euphoric and lovely after being zapped with 10,000 volts. Again I'd be hardpressed to find too many friends of mine on the force who would agree with that bull.
| quote: | | Look, if a cop tells you to get out of your car, do you sit there, scream at him and NOT expect consequences? Come on, use your brain man... |
You're telling me to use my brain? Could you please do me a favor and go back to read all of my posts on this topic, and tell me where I have disagreed with this point that:
a. The guy was an
b. He was looking for trouble
Because I'm tired as hell agreeing with this irrelevant issue. The guy could have told the cop the most vile and derogatory on earth. NOTHING so far that I have read excuses the cop from giving him multiple shocks while being on the ground handcuffed. That is NOT how you get someone up off the ground, and I would be hardpressed to find that as standard tasing procedure anywhere.
| quote: | Sorry, I'm not buying this whole multiple tazer = police brutality bull either.
The whole reasoning for the tazer in the first place was so that law enforcement didn't have to use a world of hurt with batons and such. |
I see. Hmmm, I guess you're going to have to try to convince me how using a bit of bicep work to get the kid either onto his feet or hoisted up into a carrying position is akin to "a world of hurt with batons and such". Because from what is plainly evident, they failed to even think about such actions and instead went right to the tasers that not only did not bring the kid up, but incited the crowd even more around them.
It's beyond poor judgement, and I have yet to see you or anyone defend the other officer threaten the kid in the white shirt of being tased for asking their badge numbers.
| quote: | | It's quite evident from the people from the school, and those that where actually there, that this guy deserved it. |
Quite the vigilante attitude. Fortunately the police force are trained to not hold such similar attitudes because the law does not give such reciprocating actions by the police for folks whom others deem "deserve it". What are we in the ing Wild West or something? Officers do not have that luxury of giving it to people who "deserve it." They are to objectively uphold the law under any and all circumstances no matter what.
And look, in my mind that little turd very well may have deserved punishment - but that's not up to the cops to give it, let alone in such a manner.
| quote: | | Let's not let the asshat's defiance and whelps strum the kumbiya chords too hard when in the land of reality, he really is getting what he deserved. |
Give me a ing break. Try your darnest to cut down on "The Shield" episodes before posting again, pretty please?
| quote: | If you have the energy for defiance and physobabble about, 'Patriot Act', then you have the energy to get up, IMHO (and obviously the cops thought the same).
If getting up was such an issue, and you can't comply with the order to stand up, THEN HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD THEM THAT instead of continuing to mouth off. |
Yes, I read those lines in the forum too, and again this is not a point of contention with me. Either you're continually missing my point by accident or you're deliberately unwilling and being quite ignorant of it altogether. Let me spell this out for you again to make sure you understand EXACTLY where I stand:
1. I have no excuse nor would I give one to the turd who defied giving his ID over as well as resisting detainment by the police. Up until that point he deserved what he got BY THE POLICE.
2. I don't know if he deserved the first tase or not but I'm willing to give the police the benefit of the doubt at this point. Again up until that point he deserved everything he got BY THE POLICE (and not some snotnosed college vigilantes posting on a ing Maxwhatever forum).
3. Once handcuffed and on the ground acting like a fool, THIS is where I depart from the "he got what he deserved" bull because I cannot see how in any police manual or tasing policy it is incumbent or even allowed for an officer to tase multiple times while ordering the little head to standup. Again there are alternatives to getting the kid up in a much more peaceful manner - i.e. using a little muscle by hoisting the kid up with the help of your backup and carrying him outside. I give two s as to whether or not the kid "deserved it" or anything at this point - it's not up to the cops to decide such arbitrary bull. If it were up to them for such things, I think we'd be living in a seriously ed up world of law enforcement.
Think about that for a second - someone robs a store - a cop decides not to arrest him but instead fills the unarmed robber full of lead because he just happened to rob that officer's favorite store. What the , the robber deserved it in the cop's view, right?
A man falls asleep at the wheel and accidentally runs over a jogger and kills him. A cop feels an "eye for an eye" is exactly what that sleepy driver deserves because, well, he "deserved it."
There are no subjective and arbitrary points of "deserving" anything in law enforcement - the punishment to any crime is up to the courts and the courts alone. It is merely the job of the officers to detain and arrest those suspects with as little harm done to themselves, to bystanders, AND TO THE SUSPECTS themselves. And they must do so as objectively as possible. Of course this doesn't always happen, and of course officers are humans too. But again they simply do not have the luxury of acting as subjectively as we might want them to act or would likely act ourselves.
| quote: | | Opus, I thought you were a lot more preceptive that this... |
Hopefully I am a bit more "preceptive" than you originally believed, though you still might disagree. |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
It's quite evident from the people from the school, and those that where actually there, that this guy deserved it. |
Have you read the UCLA Bruin from all the days since this happened? The people at the school hardly thought it was deserved. There was an editorial yesterday from the entire board of the paper about how this was wrong. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts from people who thought it was completely undeserved. I think the people shown in the video who are asking for badge numbers and telling the cops to stop shocking him felt it was undeserved.
By the way, I'm with Opus on the Tucker Max point. If you've read his stuff before, his stories have to be full of hyperbole and fiction (either that, or he's one of the most twisted, ed up guys out there). I personally loved his one article about the first time he did anal with a girl. He took her out, got her drunk, had his friend hide in the closet and videotape it. In the middle, she shat diarrhea all over him, his dick, and his bed, causing him and his friend who was taping the whole thing to throw up all over the place. Yeah, that's the guy who's forum you're taking as gospel on this topic.
Oh, and by the way, the lawsuit's already been filed, so I'm sure we'll get more info from both sides and all of us on both sides of the argument will end up having to retract some of our original comments after all facts are in. |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Oh, and by the way, the lawsuit's already been filed, so I'm sure we'll get more info from both sides and all of us on both sides of the argument will end up having to retract some of our original comments after all facts are in. |
I agree.
These knee-jerked, wind bagged arguments about abuse will come come to light and if I'm wrong, then fine I'll fess up, but will everyone else? |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I agree.
These knee-jerked, wind bagged arguments about abuse will come come to light and if I'm wrong, then fine I'll fess up, but will everyone else? |
I don't think most of us have much to apologize for. I don't think anyone's defended the kid for being a dick to start things if that's what happened. I mean, I have seen reports that he was already on his way out when he was grabbed, and if that's the case, I put more blame on the cops, but I'll wait for more video before making that call.
Most of us have only said that they went way overboard and that once was enough, especially when cuffs were already on. If it gets worse, like we're shown that he was profiled, which I'm not saying he was at this time, but he is suing over, or that there was no cause to grab him in the first place because he was leaving, then most of us will add to the condemnation. |
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| MisterOpus1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
I agree.
These knee-jerked, wind bagged arguments about abuse will come come to light and if I'm wrong, then fine I'll fess up, but will everyone else? |
Without hesitation. You must understand that you will rarely find someone as big of an advocate and tends to side with law enforcers as myself. Call it my own personal bias with my own buds on the force whom I share a beer and occasionally have a poker game with, but I've got nothing but absolute respect for them and what they do. Of course there's the occasional bad apples, but they have always been very few and far between. What I tend to find and what I've been told on incidents like these is exactly what I laid out - seriously poor judgement on the officer's part to continually zap the kid after being fully detained.
Split second decisions are one thing when an officer makes a wrong decision. Even when a life is at stake I tend to still understand that such decisions were instantaneously made. This particular incident doesn't appear to fit that bill, however, since the action was repeatedly performed. I think in my own mind that this officer and perhaps his backups were poorly trained for such tasing situations. I think some of that can be blamed on the infancy of the taser itself, but some of that blame must also be shared with the decision-making at that time. I actually do hope that there's much more to this whole ordeal and that ultimately these officers are cleared. It would truly vindicate their actions if it occurred. But given the evidence presented so far, I'm just a bit skeptical of that outcome, at least for now. |
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| hadi burpee |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevieboy32808
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The kid could have showed him his id or say he didn't have one and walk out with dignity instead of causing a huge scene like he did. |
the kid didnt have his id with him. the ocs (on campus security) at ucla asked him for his id and he didnt have it, so they left to get a police officer and the kid packed his up and was leaving the police grabbed him by the arm and i guess the kid probably said dont touch me and then he started gettign tasered |
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