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'Kramer's' Racial Tirade (pg. 8)
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| shanny |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
good post except for
Why not? that guy was just as wrong or right as richards was. His racial insults were the result of being angry just as richards supposedly were.
Whats the difference? |
You are confusing the two different sections of my observation, which may be my fault for using an example of one in the other.
I seperated the incident involving Michael Richards from my feelings about certain words carrying certain weight.
I'm not defending what the guy said to Michael Richards, he was wrong just like Michael Richards was for making racial comments towards him and the other people in the audience.
What my "poor dominant white male" comment was in reference to was the weight of the words used.
In much of the discussion people made reference to a racial comment being a racial comment and thats all there is to it. I agree that regardless of the comment, any racial slur is bad, but disagree that the n word carries the same weight as cracker.
I was alluding to there first of all being a tremendous history of violence associated with the N word, that is not there with cracker, adn that there are still more barriers for african americans than there are for "dominant white males". Because of this I don't think it is even remotely true to say that those two words carry the same weight, so when i was making reference to the Michael Richards incident, i was doing so not to say that one person was more right than the other, but that the words Richards used were worse than Cracker. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by shanny
and that there are still more barriers for african americans than there are for "dominant white males". |
Really? Care to explain how? |
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| Jem_hadar |
| quote: | Originally posted by shanny
Seems to me there are three different thigns going on here.
1) The incident involving Michael Richards
2) Double Standards
3) The weight carried by certain derogatory words
My opinion...
Michael Richards was out of line, not for using the N word, because as has been discussed it would be a double standard to allow it to be used by some and not others.
It is a mistake however to blindly look over the intent which was loaded behind the usage of the word. It is clear to me that he was reacting out of anger, and an inner hatred of african americans was coming out.
In this circumstance it is irrelevant what the people in the audience called him, he is a professional and should know how to handle himself.
Being a celebrity, on stage, in a position of power with a microphone places him in a different place, than if he were in an argument between two people on a street. In that circumstance the argument that "he called me this so I called him that" may hold some water, but here it does not.
I for one am dissapointed in Michael Richards, he was a person I looked up to and no amount of my previous liking oh his work will make me stand up for him in this circumstance in particular.
2)Double Standards
I agree 100% with Jayx1 that double standards are areas of trouble and should be avoided at all costs. I also agree that there is a double standard when it comes to racial commedy. By its nature, racial humour is a touchy subject, it can be done well, but always carries the risk that it will be interpretted in a different way by different people.
It does not appear to me that this episode fits into the double standard argument though, because as many have stated, these comments are not part of his humour routine. I don't think you would find too many people defending chris rock if he were to start calling out two white men in his audience angrily saying that they were crackers.
3) Weight of words
Racial insults are bad, all of them. That being said, certain ones are far worse. It is naive of anyone to think that cracker carries the same weight of the n word. Give me a break, racism may not be as large of a problem as it once was, since at least to the best of my knowledge there aren't people hanging with forks in there asses anymore, but it is still a problem, and certain terms are essentially tied up in the power struggle between the races and because of it carry more weight than others. I will not listen to the "oh poor me they're making fun of me for being a dominant white male" argument, claiming that that is as bad as what Richards was doing to those guys in his audience. |
Great post and dissection and discussion Josh. |
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| shanny |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Really? Care to explain how? |
Well if you're asking me for statistics I must apologize because I don't have any, but it would appear to me that we are still living in a world that has yet to achieve racial equality. While we are movign in that direction there are still examples of african americans beign treated unfairly all the time.
The first example that comes to mind is Hurricane Katrina. It seemed pretty obvious that there was a rather clear racial divide amongst the population in new orleans and the vast majority of those without the resources to make their way out of the city were of african american descent.
My argument is based entirely around that there is an undeniable difference between being black or white, as much as some people may want to ignore it. I am not making any judgments about one or the other but simply recognizing that there are differences, and that these differences do play a part in giving weight to the racial slurs that are used to insult each race. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by shanny
Well if you're asking me for statistics I must apologize because I don't have any, but it would appear to me that we are still living in a world that has yet to achieve racial equality. While we are movign in that direction there are still examples of african americans beign treated unfairly all the time.
The first example that comes to mind is Hurricane Katrina. It seemed pretty obvious that there was a rather clear racial divide amongst the population in new orleans and the vast majority of those without the resources to make their way out of the city were of african american descent.
My argument is based entirely around that there is an undeniable difference between being black or white, as much as some people may want to ignore it. I am not making any judgments about one or the other but simply recognizing that there are differences, and that these differences do play a part in giving weight to the racial slurs that are used to insult each race. |
Thats nice... now show me some Canadian examples.
BTW the example you gave being based on race is debatable at best. But Thats the US. Please tell me how blacks and other minorities are currently so wronged in Canada.
BTW last time i checked there werent any african AMERICANS in canada. |
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| shanny |
Give me a break Jay, the term african american you know just as good as i do is a commonly used pollitically correct way of referring to people with dark skin colour, i was attempting to be more respectful than Michael Richards.
First of all, I never made the distinction that I was referring to only Canada and not the United States. I understand the point that Canada does not have the violent history that the United States does surrounding the treatment of african americans, I am as proud of that as you are.
However, Canada is not existing in complete independence of the rest of the world. We are aware of the racist history that has taken place throughout the world (and yes i'm sure there are examples of racism violent racism taking place in canada too)just like we are aware that there is still racism taking place to this day.
The fact that it may or may not still be happening in Canada in this circumstance is irrelevant, because the N word transcends the Canadian border. Whether it is used in Canada, the United States or Iceland the word has history, and a hell of a lot more than cracker does. |
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| soupastar |
| quote: | Originally posted by KaiLee
You guys all need to sit down and watch the movie "Crash"
That's all I have to say on this one. |
ugh... most depressing movie ever |
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| soupastar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
My guess, too much coke before his set.
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i can't believe it took so many posts for someone to finally come up w/ this one, +1
the guy clearly has mad track skills. better than his comedy anyhow, how did he make it out of a club in LA after that? |
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| Cro_Addict |
| quote: | Originally posted by shanny
Give me a break Jay, the term african american you know just as good as i do is a commonly used pollitically correct way of referring to people with dark skin colour, i was attempting to be more respectful than Michael Richards.
First of all, I never made the distinction that I was referring to only Canada and not the United States. I understand the point that Canada does not have the violent history that the United States does surrounding the treatment of african americans, I am as proud of that as you are.
However, Canada is not existing in complete independence of the rest of the world. We are aware of the racist history that has taken place throughout the world (and yes i'm sure there are examples of racism violent racism taking place in canada too)just like we are aware that there is still racism taking place to this day.
The fact that it may or may not still be happening in Canada in this circumstance is irrelevant, because the N word transcends the Canadian border. Whether it is used in Canada, the United States or Iceland the word has history, and a hell of a lot more than cracker does. |
I Agree with both you and Jay u both have good points!
But u say ****** (yes i said it...why say N word and then say cracker..if u say N word then say C word) has more history behind it, which is true. However is someone believes the term cracker to be very offending to them, to that person that is just as bad as calling a black person ******.
I am not racist, and am all for equal rights just as much as the next guy, but from all the racism that has been around in the history of this world, noone seems to cry it more than black people.
By doing so, alot of ppl are not taking it all seriously, and this is a big problem. Because when it actually does happen it goes unnoticed due to it being called on sooo frequently.
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Oprah had a special a while back with 2 families changing colours and living eachothers lives. It was pretty good for most part.
However at one point they were talking about how when the black guy went to a ALL WHITE bar that people were looking at him funny, and treating him different because he was black. This was completely wrong but i dont like how they never showed the other story.
You are telling me that if a white person went downtown Detroit and went to a predominantly black neighbourhood and went into a bar that was all black people that they wouldnt be look at, and given ? I highly doubt it.
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I was trying to just show that there is in fact a double standard in the society.
I wish that everyone would just get over the colour thing and look at everyone equally, beacuse i really dont understand people that are racist. What does it really matter if u black/white/yellow or whatever WHO CARES!
As far as Kramer goes...he was way out of line and should not have done that under no circumstances. |
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| Cro_Addict |
This Board has a double standard
as you see
i am not allowed to say ****** however i can say CRACKER |
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| soupastar |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
what if a black privledged man does it? |
i can't believe you're actually bitching about this, you're from some different reality, or you live in a box. if black people find it offensive for others to use the word then take it from them and don't use it
after 300 years of slavery i figure they got 300 years of publicly making white jokes.... oh then it might be even. and in the meanwhile u can cry about the word cracker |
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