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6 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghan bomb blast (pg. 2)
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
what's in it for you, right?
typical clueless leftist. espouse the clamorous need for man to give up for the man in need, but when it comes to real sacrifice his honor becomes his own and noone elses...followed by your typical blame the U.S. tripe.
Magnetorium says "Canada needs nothing from
Afghanistan!" what if Afghanistan needs your country?
you are whats wrong. sorry. |
Afghanstan puppet American regime needs Canadian blood to sustain itself. There's no democracy in Afghanistan. No freedoms. Corruption rampant. What are exactly Canadians doing in Afghanistan other than helping Americans maintain their global empire?
EDIT: Heck, any dictatorship around the world would love to wash itself in Canadian blood to protect itself from rogue elements. Canadians are not fighting for freedoms, human rights of Afghan people, they quite frankly have little power or jurisdiction in that. Warlords are still in control, drugs flow from Afghanistan, Taliban is getting stronger, etc. etc. but yeah, who wouldn't mind having a few hundred Canadian troops soaking the soil of the dictatorship with their own blood to protect it? |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
What are exactly Canadians doing in Afghanistan other than helping Americans maintain their global empire? |
according to the "Afghanistan Compact"...
| quote: | The London Conference On Afghanistan
31 January – 1 February 2006
The Afghanistan Compact
The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and International Community:
Determined to strengthen their partnership to improve the lives of Afghan people, and to contribute to national, regional, and global peace and security;
Affirming their shared commitment to continue, in the spirit of the Bonn, Tokyo and Berlin conferences, to work toward a stable and prosperous Afghanistan, with good governance and human rights protection for all under the rule of law, and to maintain and strengthen that commitment over the term of this Compact and beyond;
Recognising the courage and determination of Afghans who, by defying violent extremism and hardship, have laid the foundations for a democratic, peaceful, pluralistic and prosperous state based on the principles of Islam;
Noting the full implementation of the Bonn Agreement through the adoption of a new constitution in January 2004, the holding of presidential elections in October 2004 and National Assembly and Provincial Council elections in September 2005, which have enabled Afghanistan to regain its rightful place in the international community;
Mindful that Afghanistan's transition to peace and stability is not yet assured, and that strong international engagement will continue to be required to address remaining challenges;
Resolved to overcome the legacy of conflict in Afghanistan by setting conditions for sustainable economic growth and development; strengthening state institutions and civil society; removing remaining terrorist threats; meeting the challenge of counter-narcotics; rebuilding capacity and infrastructure; reducing poverty; and meeting basic human needs;
Have agreed to this Afghanistan Compact.
Purpose
The Afghan Government has articulated its overarching goals for the well-being of its people in the Afghanistan Millennium Development Goals Country Report 2005 – Vision 2020. Consistent with those goals, this Compact identifies three critical and interdependent areas or “pillars” of activity for the five years from the adoption of this Compact:
Security;
Governance, Rule of Law and Human Rights; and
Economic and Social Development.
A further vital and cross-cutting area of work is eliminating the narcotics industry, which remains a formidable threat to the people and state of Afghanistan, the region, and beyond.
The Afghan Government hereby commits itself to realising this shared vision of the future; the international community, in turn, commits itself to provide resources and support to realise that vision. Annex I of this Compact sets out detailed outcomes, benchmarks and timelines for delivery, consistent with the high-level goals set by the Afghanistan National Development Strategy (ANDS). The Government and international community also commit themselves to improve the effectiveness and accountability of international assistance as set forth in Annex II.
Principles of Cooperation
As the Afghan Government and the international community embark on the implementation of this Compact, they will:
Respect the pluralistic culture, values and history of Afghanistan, based on Islam;
Work on the basis of partnership between the Afghan Government, with its sovereign responsibilities, and the international community, with a central and impartial coordinating role for the United Nations;
Engage further the deep-seated traditions of participation and aspiration to ownership of the Afghan people;
Pursue fiscal, institutional and environmental sustainability;
Build lasting Afghan capacity and effective state and civil society institutions, with particular emphasis on building up human capacities, of men and women alike;
Ensure balanced and fair allocation of domestic and international resources in order to offer all parts of the country tangible prospects of well-being;
Recognise in all policies and programmes that men and women have equal rights and responsibilities;
Promote regional cooperation; and
Combat corruption and ensure public transparency and accountability.
Security
Genuine security remains a fundamental prerequisite for achieving stability and development in Afghanistan. Security cannot be provided by military means alone. It requires good governance, justice and the rule of law, reinforced by reconstruction and development. With the support of the international community, the Afghan Government will consolidate peace by disbanding all illegal armed groups. The Afghan Government and the international community will create a secure environment by strengthening Afghan institutions to meet the security needs of the country in a fiscally sustainable manner.
To that end, the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), the US-led Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) and partner nations involved in security sector reform will continue to provide strong support to the Afghan Government in establishing and sustaining security and stability in Afghanistan, subject to participating states’ national approval procedures. They will continue to strengthen and develop the capacity of the national security forces to ensure that they become fully functional. All OEF counter-terrorism operations will be conducted in close coordination with the Afghan Government and ISAF. ISAF will continue to expand its presence throughout Afghanistan, including through Provincial Reconstruction Teams (PRTs), and will continue to promote stability and support security sector reforms in its areas of operation.
Full respect for Afghanistan’s sovereignty and strengthening dialogue and cooperation between Afghanistan and its neighbours constitute an essential guarantee of stability in Afghanistan and the region. The international community will support concrete confidence-building measures to this end.
Governance, Rule of Law and Human Rights
Democratic governance and the protection of human rights constitute the cornerstone of sustainable political progress in Afghanistan. The Afghan Government will rapidly expand its capacity to provide basic services to the population throughout the country. It will recruit competent and credible professionals to public service on the basis of merit; establish a more effective, accountable, and transparent administration at all levels of Government; and implement measurable improvements in fighting corruption, upholding justice and the rule of law and promoting respect for the human rights of all Afghans.
The Afghan Government will give priority to the coordinated establishment in each province of functional institutions – including civil administration, police, prisons and judiciary. These institutions will have appropriate legal frameworks and appointment procedures; trained staff; and adequate remuneration, infrastructure, and auditing capacity. The Government will establish a fiscally and institutionally sustainable administration for future elections under the supervision of the Afghanistan Independent Electoral Commission.
Reforming the justice system will be a priority for the Afghan Government and the international community. The aim will be to ensure equal, fair and transparent access to justice for all based upon written codes with fair trials and enforceable verdicts. Measures will include completing legislative reforms for the public as well as the private sector; building the capacity of judicial institutions and personnel; promoting human rights and legal awareness; and rehabilitating judicial infrastructure.
The Afghan Government and the international community reaffirm their commitment to the protection and promotion of rights provided for in the Afghan constitution and under applicable international law, including the international human rights covenants and other instruments to which Afghanistan is party. With a view to rebuilding trust among those whose lives were shattered by war, reinforcing a shared sense of citizenship and a culture of tolerance, pluralism and observance of the rule of law, the Afghan Government with the support of the international community will implement the Action Plan on Peace, Justice and Reconciliation.
Economic and Social Development
The Afghan Government with the support of the international community will pursue high rates of sustainable economic growth with the aim of reducing hunger, poverty and unemployment. It will promote the role and potential of the private sector, alongside those of the public and non-profit sectors; curb the narcotics industry; ensure macroeconomic stability; restore and promote the development of the country’s human, social and physical capital, thereby establishing a sound basis for a new generation of leaders and professionals; strengthen civil society; and complete the reintegration of returnees, internally displaced persons and ex-combatants.
Public investments will be structured around the six sectors of the pillar on economic and social development of the Afghanistan National Development Strategy:
Infrastructure and natural resources;
Education;
Health;
Agriculture and rural development;
Social protection; and
Economic governance and private sector development.
In each of these areas, the objective will be to achieve measurable results towards the goal of equitable economic growth that reduces poverty, expands employment and enterprise creation, enhances opportunities in the region and improves the well-being of all Afghans.
Counter-Narcotics – A Cross-Cutting Priority
Meeting the threat that the narcotics industry poses to national, regional and international security as well as the development and governance of the country and the well-being of Afghans will be a priority for the Government and the international community. The aim will be to achieve a sustained and significant reduction in the production and trafficking of narcotics with a view to complete elimination. Essential elements include improved interdiction, law enforcement and judicial capacity building; enhanced cooperation among Afghanistan, neighbouring countries and the international community on disrupting the drugs trade; wider provision of economic alternatives for farmers and labourers in the context of comprehensive rural development; and building national and provincial counter-narcotics institutions. It will also be crucial to enforce a zero-tolerance policy towards official corruption; to pursue eradication as appropriate; to reinforce the message that producing or trading opiates is both immoral and a violation of Islamic law; and to reduce the demand for the illicit use of opiates.
Coordination and Monitoring
The Afghan Government and the international community are establishing a joint Coordination and Monitoring Board for the implementation of the political commitments that comprise this Compact. As detailed in Annex III, this Board will be co-chaired by the Afghan Government and the United Nations and will be supported by a small secretariat. It will ensure greater coherence of efforts by the Afghan Government and international community to implement the Compact and provide regular and timely public reports on its execution.
The London Conference on Afghanistan
London , 31 January and 1 February 2006 |
it's all a lie though, right? typical. |
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| Groundhog Boy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Canada needs nothing in Afghanistan. We have all the oil, gas, water, electricity, etc. we will ever need. Why waste money on a stupid war losing our precious troops while we can put money for something more useful instead of fighting an American war? Its pointless. Its a waste of human lives, money, time and making Canada look bad in the Muslim world. Absolutely nothing to gain other than US happy to use us. We already provide enough for USA with oil and energy. |
You're not really the most perceptive when it comes to alliances and international relations, are you? Or are you just really a short-term thinker? |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Canadians are not fighting for freedoms, human rights of Afghan people, they quite frankly have little power or jurisdiction in that. |
how do you know that? |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
according to the "Afghanistan Compact"...
it's all a lie though, right? typical. |
Ha .. hahaha ... hahahaha ... The program you are talking about has been talked and implemented much earlier. I am too tired to actually find a very good article on all the human rights abuses, corruption going on in Afghanistan right now, though I would like to point out this more recent Human Rights Watch .org report:
Afghanistan: Slow Progress on Security and Rights
Kabul, Donors Should Focus on Accountability and the Rule of Law
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/01/29/afghan15223.htm
Some highlights:
“Afghanistan hasn’t really met many of the benchmarks, particularly those addressing the well-being of the Afghan people,” said Sam Zarifi, Asia research director at Human Rights Watch. “Kabul and its international backers have made little progress in providing basic needs like security, food, electricity, water and health care.”
The United States, the European Union and other donors should provide greater economic, political and military assistance necessary to protect the human rights of Afghans, Human Rights Watch said. President Karzai’s government should improve the rule of law and hold militias and warlords accountable for abuses.
"In all [in 2006], more than 4,400 Afghans died in conflict-related violence, twice as many as in 2005 and more than in any other year since the United States helped oust the Taliban in 2001."
"Human Rights Watch called upon NATO countries, as signatories to the Afghanistan Compact, to set up a financial compensation program for civilian death, injury or property damage resulting from NATO operations in Afghanistan. In 2006, NATO and coalition operations caused the deaths of at least 100 civilians and damaged the homes and livelihoods of hundreds of families."
"Human Rights Watch voiced concern over the slow progress on the program to disband illegal militias as stipulated in the Afghanistan Compact. The United Nations estimates that hundreds of illegally armed groups, many of them ostensibly allied with the government, continue to exercise power throughout Afghanistan. In many parts of the country, warlords and their militias have perpetrated serious human rights abuses such as illegal land grabs, intimidation of journalists, and factional and ethnic violence.
“Afghans are abused by both the Taliban and pro-government warlords,” said Zarifi. “Insecurity is not just confined to the south; it’s a serious problem for Afghans who live in the north and the west, away from the hotbeds of the insurgency.”
Human Rights Watch said the Afghan government also failed to meet the benchmarks for governance, rule of law and human rights. The slow progress toward establishing accountability strengthened the insurgency and undermined implementation of the compact, Human Rights Watch said.
“After three decades of suffering abuses, Afghans have repeatedly called for accountability for those responsible for serious human rights abuses, whether communists, warlords, or the Taliban,” Zarifi said. “There can be no sustainable peace and security in Afghanistan without respect for the rule of law.”
The compact requires the implementation of the Action Plan for Peace, Reconciliation and Justice, a five-year plan for implementing transitional justice in Afghanistan. President Karzai officially initiated the Action Plan on December 12, 2006.
On January 24 [2007], several members of Afghanistan’s lower house of parliament (the Wolesi Jirga) discussed granting themselves blanket immunity against accusations of perpetrating war crimes. The discussion was led by parliamentarians such as Abdul Rabb al Rasul Sayyaf, Burhanuddin Rabbani, and Taj Mohammad, all of whom have been implicated in war crimes or other human rights abuses. "
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
You're not really the most perceptive when it comes to alliances and international relations, are you? Or are you just really a short-term thinker? |
I said it before, and I'll say it again - Canada needs NOTHING from Afghanistan. The only reason its there is to serve Americans for whatever they wish to do with the country. And any democracy, rights, stability is long way from reality.
Instead of criticizing me, how about actually telling me some serious info on what good are Canadian men and women dying in Afghanistan for. What has been achieved? And please no shady cheesy responses like the PLANS or the INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, ALLIANCES, etc. cause none of that benefits Canada and an average Canadian. Instead, we now have a greater chance of a terrorist attack because of dumb Canadian politicians and growing Muslim unrest against Canada around the world. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Afghanistan: Slow Progress on Security and Rights
Kabul, Donors Should Focus on Accountability and the Rule of Law
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/01/29/afghan15223.htm
Some highlights:
“Afghanistan hasn’t really met many of the benchmarks, particularly those addressing the well-being of the Afghan people,” said Sam Zarifi, Asia research director at Human Rights Watch. “Kabul and its international backers have made little progress in providing basic needs like security, food, electricity, water and health care.”
The United States, the European Union and other donors should provide greater economic, political and military assistance necessary to protect the human rights of Afghans, Human Rights Watch said. President Karzai’s government should improve the rule of law and hold militias and warlords accountable for abuses.
"In all [in 2006], more than 4,400 Afghans died in conflict-related violence, twice as many as in 2005 and more than in any other year since the United States helped oust the Taliban in 2001."
"Human Rights Watch called upon NATO countries, as signatories to the Afghanistan Compact, to set up a financial compensation program for civilian death, injury or property damage resulting from NATO operations in Afghanistan. In 2006, NATO and coalition operations caused the deaths of at least 100 civilians and damaged the homes and livelihoods of hundreds of families."
"Human Rights Watch voiced concern over the slow progress on the program to disband illegal militias as stipulated in the Afghanistan Compact. The United Nations estimates that hundreds of illegally armed groups, many of them ostensibly allied with the government, continue to exercise power throughout Afghanistan. In many parts of the country, warlords and their militias have perpetrated serious human rights abuses such as illegal land grabs, intimidation of journalists, and factional and ethnic violence.
“Afghans are abused by both the Taliban and pro-government warlords,” said Zarifi. “Insecurity is not just confined to the south; it’s a serious problem for Afghans who live in the north and the west, away from the hotbeds of the insurgency.”
Human Rights Watch said the Afghan government also failed to meet the benchmarks for governance, rule of law and human rights. The slow progress toward establishing accountability strengthened the insurgency and undermined implementation of the compact, Human Rights Watch said.
“After three decades of suffering abuses, Afghans have repeatedly called for accountability for those responsible for serious human rights abuses, whether communists, warlords, or the Taliban,” Zarifi said. “There can be no sustainable peace and security in Afghanistan without respect for the rule of law.”
The compact requires the implementation of the Action Plan for Peace, Reconciliation and Justice, a five-year plan for implementing transitional justice in Afghanistan. President Karzai officially initiated the Action Plan on December 12, 2006.
On January 24 [2007], several members of Afghanistan’s lower house of parliament (the Wolesi Jirga) discussed granting themselves blanket immunity against accusations of perpetrating war crimes. The discussion was led by parliamentarians such as Abdul Rabb al Rasul Sayyaf, Burhanuddin Rabbani, and Taj Mohammad, all of whom have been implicated in war crimes or other human rights abuses. "
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so how does this bolster your claim that "Afghanistan is a puppet regime" and "the U.S. is using Canada"? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Canada needs nothing in Afghanistan. We have all the oil, gas, water, electricity, etc. we will ever need. Why waste money on a stupid war losing our precious troops while we can put money for something more useful instead of fighting an American war? Its pointless. Its a waste of human lives, money, time and making Canada look bad in the Muslim world. Absolutely nothing to gain other than US happy to use us. We already provide enough for USA with oil and energy. |
It's not always a neo-con, blood for oil agenda to do what's right you know; and that's why we're there.
Our selflessness actions should be speaking volumes so do us all a favour and take the wax our of your ears...
People are actually standing up for justice and solidarity! What a concept! |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Instead of criticizing me[/COLOR] |
b/c your are too dense and self-important to realize there are 32 other countries over there under a UN mandate to stabilize that country in the absence of a very wicked and horrible 30 year past. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
so how does this bolster your claim that "Afghanistan is a puppet regime" and "the U.S. is using Canada"? |
a) quite a few Afghani government / parliament people are admitted war criminals
b) they have failed to agree and enforce democracy and human rights in Afghanistan
c) Canada had no interests of any kind or goals to protect in Afghanistan
d) Karzai was American citizen, American educated (aka puppet)
Here's some random info on Karzai and Afghanistan courtesy of Wikipedia - read carefully how he is AGAINST ending drug trade:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karzai
"Karzai's actual authority outside the capital city of Kabul was said to be so limited that he was often derided as the "Mayor of Kabul". Former members of the Northern Alliance remained extremely influential, most notably Vice President Mohammed Fahim, who also served as Defence Minister.
On September 5, 2002, an assassination attempt was made on Hamid Karzai in Kandahar. A gunman wearing the uniform of the new Afghan National Army opened fire, wounding the Governor of Kandahar and an American Special Operations officer. The gunman, one of the President's bodyguards, and a bystander who knocked down the gunman were killed when Karzai's bodyguards returned fire.
In 2004 he rejected a US proposal to end poppy production in Afghanistan through aerial spraying of chemical herbicides, possibly fearing that he may alienate some warlords who are less hostile to his administration or who support him conditionally. Moreover, Karzai's younger brother, Ahmed Wali Karzai, who helped finance Karzai's presidential campaign, is involved in the drug trade. [1] The situation is particularly delicate since Karzai and his administration have not been equipped either financially or politically to influence reforms outside of the region around the capital city of Kabul. President Karzai has repeatedly turned a blind eye to his brother's illegal activities. Other areas, particularly the more remote ones, are currently and have historically been under the influence of various warlords. Karzai has been, to varying degrees of success, attempting to negotiate and form amicable alliances with them for the benefit of Afghanistan as a whole, instead of aggressively fighting them and putting the entire nation at jeopardy of a full blown civil war."
"Hamid Karzai received criticism from a rights group, Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA), who charge that the current government has no support in most areas of Afghanistan, and that fundamentalists are enforcing misogynistic laws as they were under the Taliban.[6]"
Plus dont forget the former ties Karzai had to the oil behemoths at El Segundo, UNoCal subsidiary ;-) |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
b/c your are too dense and self-important to realize there are 32 other countries over there under a UN mandate to stabilize that country in the absence of a very wicked and horrible 30 year past. |
Notice a difference when Soviet Union invaded other countries - United States didnt create, support and fund a terrorist organization and today these nations are more or less normal and not terrorized or run by radicals. Afghanistan was invaded by Soviet Union. However, Americans felt like they needed to help create a monster that has been terrorizing Afghanistan since 1988. Same with Al Qaeda. Iranian Revolution was a backlash from Operation Ajax. Cant you guys see the pattern? And we all know what happened to these organizations and countries since! Afghanistan is lost, its only a matter of time when civil war erupts again when one of the countless warlords has a serious dispute with Karzai over human rights, drugs productions, bribes that could result in a conflict. The unhappy warlords are likely harbouring and supporting the same Taliban for crrying out loud! Women's rights are threatened and not granted in many places. Corruption is rampant - plenty of former war criminals in Afghani parliament.
And Canadians are dying for these bastards? Screw that ! |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Notice a difference when Soviet Union invaded other countries - United States didnt create, support and fund a terrorist organization and today these nations are more or less normal and not terrorized or run by radicals. Afghanistan was invaded by Soviet Union. However, Americans felt like they needed to help create a monster that has been terrorizing Afghanistan since 1988. Same with Al Qaeda. Iranian Revolution was a backlash from Operation Ajax. Cant you guys see the pattern? And we all know what happened to these organizations and countries since! Afghanistan is lost, its only a matter of time when civil war erupts again when one of the countless warlords has a serious dispute with Karzai over human rights, drugs productions, bribes that could result in a conflict. The unhappy warlords are likely harbouring and supporting the same Taliban for crrying out loud! Women's rights are threatened and not granted in many places. Corruption is rampant - plenty of former war criminals in Afghani parliament.
And Canadians are dying for these bastards? Screw that ! |
well said bro well said.It is just the matter of time before people start voicing their concerns over this so called mission.I give it a year before our troops are back.Everyone knows this is going nowhere and Taliban are gaining power everyday. |
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