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6 Canadian soldiers killed in Afghan bomb blast (pg. 4)
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
staying or leaving the Taliban arent going anywhere and you know that very well.Canads mission was to be there as peacekeeprs and that mission has turned into a full on combat.This is not our war and our troops dont deserve to die.Americans started this war and that should finish it and that will take decades and bollions of dollors out of ordinary people like yourself.
If thats the price you want to pay then by all means but leave others out of this mess. |
Where did you pull this one? Out of your ass?
Afghanistan was never intended to be a peacekeeping mission and Cretin knew that when he sent in 3 PPCLI to battle the Taliban.
How the do you be a peacekeeper when there is no peace in the first place? |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Oh come on, it's the plug and play generation here you're trying to convince.
It it's not ready to eat, in high definition with a saved game feature and more than a 15minute walk away they pout, jump up and down screaming that it's taking too long. |
You got me there :p |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Where did you pull this one? Out of your ass?
Afghanistan was never intended to be a peacekeeping mission and Cretin knew that when he sent in 3 PPCLI to battle the Taliban.
How the do you be a peacekeeper when there is no peace in the first place? |
Hey dude,by all means go fight for whatever it is that you want,nobody is stopping you.If you are fine fighting for the American empire it is fine with me.:) |
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| DJM104D |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Hmmmm... You should post this on army.ca and see what those you claim to speak for think about your little tirade |
youre one of us arent you? i can smell something clean about your existence. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Hey dude,by all means go fight for whatever it is that you want,nobody is stopping you.If you are fine fighting for the American empire it is fine with me.:) |
Who said anything about me fighting for an American cause?
I was merely debunking whatever false posts you're making in regards to Canadian mission in Afghanistan.
Gotta wonder though. Cretin never liked Bush. Why would he support the Afghanistan mission? Oh right. To avoid going to Iraq. Gotta love politicians |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJM104D
youre one of us arent you? i can smell something clean about your existence. |
I dunno what you mean by 'one of us' but your last post doesn't leave me to think well of you.
If you want to carry on a more personal convo, you can reach me via PM. |
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| Dj O'Callaghan |
| quote: | | This is clear as ever that Canada should immediatelly withdraw from Afghanistan and an imperialist entity known as nato and let brits and yanks fight for their empire. Both of those have gone after oil in Iraq and prefer killing civilians from the skies to make a point while our canadian soldiers bear the brunt of hostilities on the ground . |
I strongly disagree. Have you heard of the Helmand Province? Where Brits are fighting day in day out against thousands of Taliban.
Go speak to the British soldiers there because their the guys who are really bearing the burnt of the conflict. In no way are they cruising around Kabul in jeeps having it easy. |
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| Magnetonium |
Yet again, I'd like to point out that the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq are doomed. No need for our troops to continue dying there. Afghanistan is mainly mountains, the country is ran mostly by former war criminals, corrupt people, and warlords who still do the drug trade and nothing can be done to stop them. They continue to deny their people human rights, firebomb women's schools, threaten human rights activists, some of whom are killed.
Then its blatantly obvious that Taliban cannot be ever defeated using force. The more NATO misses and more civilian targets they hit, the more Taliban sympathizers there are. Taliban is rebounding. Taliban has support among Pakistanis and some Afghani warlords probably harbour them. The country is barely hanging on the bribes and thin treaties between the main government and the warlords. No democracy.
And, then, in the middle of all this, our fellow Canadians are spilling their blood for someone else's cause. How do you expect a Canadian military based in the Kandahar airport where its holed up most of the time to be able to do anything to influence Afghani people who are routinely harrassed and denied their freedoms and rights and security by the corrupt Afghani government? Warlords will go in an all out war if their drug production is stopped or interfered with. Drugs are still grown and exported from Afghanistan, you know.
So what exactly are the Canadians dying for? Afghanistan cannot be carpet bombed because of millions of mountains and many many holes that terrorists can hide in. There's no democracy there, nothing to look for. Nothing to gain for Canada other than heartbroken mothers who lose their sons and daughters. We didnt start the war, and we have nothing to gain. Nothing. Stop comparing me to an Al Qaeda supporter because I hate the terrorists but I also hate the bull that my fellow Canadians ae dying for. Dying for nothing. Dying to support a corrupt puppet regime whose jurisdiction only covers city of Kabul.
Why dont Americans and NATO bomb Taliban bases and terrorist groups that infiltrate into Afghanistan from Pakistan? Huh? We all know Pakistan has these groups based there. Now THATS YOUR PROBLEM. And it seems that Canadians are dying for these stupid mistakes. |
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| EvilTree |
I thought you left wing types were all about global community and stuff.
Like everyone's a citizen of earth and we should help each other.
They're the one usually crying the loudest whenever it is perceived that the world is not doing enough to help the those that suffer.
Funny thing is, I'm not even a conservative. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
I thought you left wing types were all about global community and stuff.
Like everyone's a citizen of earth and we should help each other.
They're the one usually crying the loudest whenever it is perceived that the world is not doing enough to help the those that suffer.
Funny thing is, I'm not even a conservative. |
Yes, we were. Until one day we realized that going half way around the world with shady agenda and carpet bombing their people and lying to them, with little progress happening in their countries, and then government support the same terrorist bastards and many of former Taliban are involved in Afghan government - heck, we make things worse. And we are making things worse. We are not the experts and not the solution either. We are getting in the way on an American-terrorist conflict, and we are casualties. In a way we support American global agenda by fighting their war in Afghanistan. And little or nothing has been achieved. Right now Americans and Pakistanis are supporting terrorists group that does attacks within Iran, based in Pakistan. Sounds like Taliban's beginnings to me. And then must later American, Canadian, UK soldiers will die fighting these bastards that current regimes are supporting. Most of Taliban are given shelter in Pakistan, but Canadian troops have no jurisdiction there. Some warlords who are supporting current Afghani leadership are former Taliban officials. And I bet they are not too extatic and all supportive of the new regime, and I wouldn't be surprised if they help or shelter Taliban resistance thats on the rise. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Yes, we were. Until one day we realized that going half way around the world with shady agenda and carpet bombing their people and lying to them, with little progress happening in their countries, and then government support the same terrorist bastards and many of former Taliban are involved in Afghan government - heck, we make things worse. And we are making things worse. We are not the experts and not the solution either. We are getting in the way on an American-terrorist conflict, and we are casualties. In a way we support American global agenda by fighting their war in Afghanistan. And little or nothing has been achieved. Right now Americans and Pakistanis are supporting terrorists group that does attacks within Iran, based in Pakistan. Sounds like Taliban's beginnings to me. And then must later American, Canadian, UK soldiers will die fighting these bastards that current regimes are supporting. Most of Taliban are given shelter in Pakistan, but Canadian troops have no jurisdiction there. Some warlords who are supporting current Afghani leadership are former Taliban officials. And I bet they are not too extatic and all supportive of the new regime, and I wouldn't be surprised if they help or shelter Taliban resistance thats on the rise. |
I actually agree with a lot of your points, but only from short term point of view.
Like I said before, Afghanistan is pits right now and it's not the idea society or the govt in Afghanistan. You never get the right material in state building.
But changes take time. (and signs that Afghanistan is slowly getting on its feet are there, despite media's coverage of only the fighting most of the time)
I don't see Afghanistan as merely supporting the Yanks war on Terror. It's about the people of Afghanistan and that if we believe in this life, liberty, democracy and human rights for everyone on this planet, I think we owe these people a chance, even if it means billions of dollars spent and Canadian boys and girls dying.
We'll never go to one of these places for the purest altruism. International politics doesn't permit that sort of things.
If we give up on Afghanistan now, it'll only bolden the extremists Muslims who are against that everything we, the Canadians stand for and take their attacks further, because they see how easily we have given up.
Afghanistan has long term implications in modern world. |
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| Magnetonium |
I have my own vision to the solution in Afghanistan, but I dont think I'll get in detail because its only my vision, my opinion. But it doesnt involve continuing the carpet bombing of the Afghani mountains and searching every fox hole for the terrorists. They represent strong forces. It appears that they won't be easily or defeated anytime soon. Different approach is necessary.
We, the West, have demostrated that we can dethrone them. We need to get together will all the major players, not just some weak puppets and establish guidelines and structure to form Afghanistan as a secure and democratic government. Eventually things will then sort themselves out. Troops need to go, many Afghanis perceive this as occupation and resistance thrives on this. If Americans continue to support weak puppets and turn away strong rulers, violence will deteriorate. If US uses them to bring peace and stability, eventually it will gradually be able to turn the page the way it wants. It cant happen with direct military force and subsequent military occupation.
Something along those lines. Basically current methods are failing, it is obvious. Imagine one day American government will be unable to fund Afghanistan government. Everything will collapse. Right now it works like a stack of cards, very thin and fragile. There's no strong base from which to work from. Warlords are still controlling their lands, and produce drugs and violate human rights. So it rightfully appears that a puppet government is in place to serve someone else's agenda.
Kinda like in Iraq I think US should talk and make deals and co-operate with the powerful clerics, the ones who can influence crowds and people, not the weak puppet government. Step by step, with strong foundation, democracy can be achieved. But puppet governments will eventually fall, as was seen with Soviet Union's puppet regime of Afghanistan.
EDIT: Basically I think that we can achieve this without force. If we rely on force all the time and cant achieve the support of the people, then if the force is gone, the rule is gone. |
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