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Do pro DJ's Standardize the BPM on there CD's?? (pg. 10)
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| Azret |
Now I hate to be someone who comments on things like this because I myself am a fairly new DJ just getting up with Traktor and a couple of cdjs. But seeing that beatmatching is all about a trained ear, lets look at a couple of the DJs we know today who use nothing but software to get things done; Paul Van Dyk, Sasha, Carl Cox, Oakenfold, Tiesto. No one uses records anymore because of all the running around they have to do with crates and what not (think of a 3 month tour in South America). Technology has included BPM counters on everything from CD decks, Mixers, and software. Lets look at what Sasha did at his Amnesia set, the set was pure genius but he used ableton so does that make him a bad DJ? Look at Paul Van Dyk, yes his sets sound more and more mechanical by the day, but people come to see him in crowds and droves because of things he mastered in the past.
On another note, using Traktor seems to be the best alternative to going to the store and purchasing vinyl after vinyl. It as occured to me that alternatives like Beatport.com have made things easier by giving the royalty to the DJ who produced it and providing you a quality rip whether it be mp3 or wav. Anything we use these days will show you the bpm (DJM600, DJM800, CDJ1000, DENON S5000). But if a dj is pre-editing or pre-recorded sets to make things easier, well then sir congradulations on tricking the untrained ear, but those of us who are still trying to make it the old fashioned way are feeling the hurt. |
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| DJChrisB |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azret
Now I hate to be someone who comments on things like this because I myself am a fairly new DJ just getting up with Traktor and a couple of cdjs. But seeing that beatmatching is all about a trained ear, lets look at a couple of the DJs we know today who use nothing but software to get things done; Paul Van Dyk, Sasha, Carl Cox, Oakenfold, Tiesto. No one uses records anymore because of all the running around they have to do with crates and what not (think of a 3 month tour in South America). Technology has included BPM counters on everything from CD decks, Mixers, and software. Lets look at what Sasha did at his Amnesia set, the set was pure genius but he used ableton so does that make him a bad DJ? Look at Paul Van Dyk, yes his sets sound more and more mechanical by the day, but people come to see him in crowds and droves because of things he mastered in the past. |
The people you mentioned like Paul Van Dyk, Sasha, and Carl Cox could beatmatch with ease if they really wanted to. But, after doing this sorta thing for years, they don't have to prove anything to anyone any more. As long as they are putting as much effort into their mixing as they would if they were manually beatmatching, then why not.
If you think the most important quality in a DJ is his beatmatching ability, then you need to consider what else it takes to have a solid live mix. Beatmatching is pretty elementary stuff. |
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| Inertia |
ok, some guys here are taking things a bit out of proportion.
using software to edit a track's tempo is nothing bad. what DOES suck would be having it done to ALL tracks in order to not even beatmatch.
Cox could keep a record matched from 6 feet away by looking at it, so he sure as hell can mix. from what i understand, what the man does with software, like many other big DJs, is make his own edits and mashups. yes, he will export them to a BPM he wants, but this does not keep him from having to beatmatch it to another track.
on another note, i don't see the point to making your track "a whole number" tempo, if you're gonna be re-pitching it anyways. in some cases, when it's a very slow or fast track and you don't want to abuse pitch control, editing the tempo before hand can be a good idea. otherwise, don't see the point. |
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| Azret |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJChrisB
The people you mentioned like Paul Van Dyk, Sasha, and Carl Cox could beatmatch with ease if they really wanted to. But, after doing this sorta thing for years, they don't have to prove anything to anyone any more. As long as they are putting as much effort into their mixing as they would if they were manually beatmatching, then why not.
If you think the most important quality in a DJ is his beatmatching ability, then you need to consider what else it takes to have a solid live mix. Beatmatching is pretty elementary stuff. |
Dont get me wrong, I understand that a set is not beatmatching, its track flow, effect, and everything attached but it sort of takes away from things if you set it up pre-hand. I can understand putting it on a CD, but then editing it to make it easier for you to do whatever (just playing it as opposed to sampling and mashing it up), you kinda took away something that us listeners see as an art. |
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| Zild |
| Beatmatching is definitely not an art. I'm quite sure I could train a rhesus monkey up to standard proficiency given a year. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zild
Beatmatching is definitely not an art. I'm quite sure I could train a rhesus monkey up to standard proficiency given a year. |
+1
My brother figured it out in about 2 hours the first time he used my decks. |
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| Nemesis44 |
What makes me wonder about all this is really more the aspect I'm about to mention.
I can in a way understand the big guns a little for doing this. In part you whole reputation is based on how you perform. If you do play a venue with sound it does take the risk out of it a bit. But on the other hand, with their experience this shouldn't really be an issue anyway.
The other thing I'm still not grasping is that, beatmatching is so darn easy anyway and probably less agro than pitching or warping the track anyway. Why bother.
When you know your tunes well enough you are really not beat matching and it is pretty easy to predict a rough guess to as to the correct pitch anyway.
I think there are other things more critical to DJing that some of the names mentioned are doing or failing to do that deserve more focus. In the big scheme of things this really doesn't come up against self endulgent sets on lap top or a lifeless performance.
Still, the artform is evolving faster than ever before and it's actually good to see production creeping in.
Cheers
Nem |
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| MiguelD |
| what software could do such a thing? |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by MiguelD
what software could do such a thing? |
Protools HD |
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| basilisk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azret
Lets look at what Sasha did at his Amnesia set, the set was pure genius but he used ableton so does that make him a bad DJ? Look at Paul Van Dyk, yes his sets sound more and more mechanical by the day, but people come to see him in crowds and droves because of things he mastered in the past. |
There is a tangible difference between those of us who learnt how to mix with vinyl, and all those other guys who went straight to using the "sync" feature. Most notably, when you hear a laptop DJ mixing tunes that are technically beatmatched yet slightly out of phase, this is the hallmark of someone who has not developed an ear for what is going on. Anyone experienced with mixing the old-fashioned way is going to know something is up when this sort of computing error rears its ugly head, and they'll know how to correct it. |
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| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by basilisk
There is a tangible difference between those of us who learnt how to mix with vinyl, and all those other guys who went straight to using the "sync" feature. Most notably, when you hear a laptop DJ mixing tunes that are technically beatmatched yet slightly out of phase, this is the hallmark of someone who has not developed an ear for what is going on. Anyone experienced with mixing the old-fashioned way is going to know something is up when this sort of computing error rears its ugly head, and they'll know how to correct it. |
I learned how to keep tracks well phrased, in key, and when to press play using ableton when I first started mixing. I only got decks a year later. I dont think it should have anything to do with that. You either know how to mix and understand the concepts or you don't, the medium used is largely irrelevant. A laptop DJ who mixes off phrase would do the same on CDJs since they obviously can't hear the difference, and, surprise, I see people mixing the same way with vinyl and decks! |
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| basilisk |
| Hey, don't get me wrong--it's entirely possible to learn any which way... the fact that some self-taught laptop DJs get into things and somehow fail to pick up on what an out-of-phase mix actually sounds like is merely a trend I've noticed (and I'm not the only one). |
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