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Do pro DJ's Standardize the BPM on there CD's?? (pg. 8)
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| lücid |
| quote: | Originally posted by mhinnen
Just out of curosity, how do you edit the tracks to do that? I would assume its something done in any DAW, logic, ableton etc? |
bring it into a playlist in Mixmeister, alter the BPM in the properties, export as wav, and burn to CD.
| quote: | Originally posted by mhinnen
How did you find they were not a "whole number"? If you ran it through a BPM counter, it was probably an error. BPM counters aren't that accurate. I don't know any producers who wouldn't set their BPM to a whole number, the difference is non-existent lol. :p
If the song was ripped from vinyl (warez), there would be some drift in the BPM. If it remained digital from start to finish (anything on Beatport etc.), the only thing that would occur is samplerate/bitdepth reduction, which wouldn't affect the BPM. |
Mixmeister has been pretty accurate so far. granted i don't expect it to be perfect every single time, and i would never solely rely on that when i'm mixing (i don't mark BPMs on my CDs)... but if i have a track that says the BPM is at 125.5, i'd rather just round it up to be sure.
i haven't been spinning for that long and i still rely pretty heavily on the beatcounters, so maybe i'm wasting my time.. but it's seemed to work ok so far. :p |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by lücid
if i have a track that says the BPM is at 125.5, i'd rather just round it up to be sure. |
what you're really doing is changing the REAL whole-number bpm to an un-whole number! The Mixmeister algorthms just aren't that accurate; its about +/- 1bpm accuracy or worse, definately not sub-bpm accurate. Just thought you should know, saves a few minutes of your life! hehe. :p |
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| Ryan0751 |
Exactly... and that's the biggest waste of time ever. Spend all that time practicing instead!
| quote: | Originally posted by echosystm
what you're really doing is changing the REAL whole-number bpm to an un-whole number! The Mixmeister algorthms just aren't that accurate; its about +/- 1bpm accuracy or worse, definately not sub-bpm accurate. Just thought you should know, saves a few minutes of your life! hehe. :p |
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| Stu Cox |
| quote: | Originally posted by lücid
bring it into a playlist in Mixmeister, alter the BPM in the properties, export as wav, and burn to CD. |
Does that actually change the tempo of the track? Or is it essentially just you telling Mixmeister what the actual tempo of the track is?
If you're not sure, compare the file sizes of the original & output files - if they're the same size, it's not making any difference. Or just change the tempo to 200 bpm or something and see if it sounds silly after rendering. |
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| Ryan0751 |
Sounds like it could just be altering the MP3 tag of the file. Which would alter the size as well, but not do anything to the audio.
I doubt exporting the track would actually alter the speed... Ableton, yes, but Mixmeister? It's not that good :)
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
Does that actually change the tempo of the track? Or is it essentially just you telling Mixmeister what the actual tempo of the track is?
If you're not sure, compare the file sizes of the original & output files - if they're the same size, it's not making any difference. Or just change the tempo to 200 bpm or something and see if it sounds silly after rendering. |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
Sounds like it could just be altering the MP3 tag of the file. Which would alter the size as well, but not do anything to the audio.
I doubt exporting the track would actually alter the speed... Ableton, yes, but Mixmeister? It's not that good :) |
Actually, it can/does. Without a doubt. Works almost exactly the same as warping tracks in Ableton.
Mixmeister is a very, very sound program for what it's trying to do. |
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| Ryan0751 |
Interesting... I still find it hard to believe that the tracks are actually not a round number BPM, that sounds like the algorithm they are using to find the beats is off.
Can you modify the beat grid, similar to how you warp in ableton?
In ableton, often the "segment bpm" will be a little off, but once you correct the first and last warp markers and tell it to warp "straight", it's nearly always a rounded number.
Still, why would you go through all this hassle unless you were actually re-editing the track?
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Actually, it can/does. Without a doubt. Works almost exactly the same as warping tracks in Ableton.
Mixmeister is a very, very sound program for what it's trying to do. |
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| RJT |
Well, as Myra said previously - she still relies a bit heavily on the BPM counters, so regardless of whether or not it's actually doing much for her, at least it's putting her head in the right place, and she'll learn just as the rest of us have.
As for the BPM's not being constant, I don't know what to tell you - but I do know that when I check tracks against 4 or more different algorithims and mix them on CDJ's noting that two tracks supposedly at 125 BPM are pitched to +.40% and +.85% respectively in order to get them pretty close to perfectly beatmatched, something isn't right. ;)
And while the way you edit the beat grid in MM is slightly different than in Ableton, but in many ways it's the same process.
Edit: And again, I BUY my music. I swear to God if one more person asks whether or not i'm playing vinyl rips I'm going to all over them. :p |
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| Ryan0751 |
But the point is that relying on BPM counters is just a bad, bad, idea and it'll only hurt her progress in the end. Exporting tracks at the rounded BPM's does nothing, because the BPM counters on CDJ's are just not accurate enough to rely on them in any case. So why do it? Break the bad habit before it hurts you.
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
Well, as Myra said previously - she still relies a bit heavily on the BPM counters, so regardless of whether or not it's actually doing much for her, at least it's putting her head in the right place, and she'll learn just as the rest of us have.
As for the BPM's not being constant, I don't know what to tell you - but I do know that when I check tracks against 4 or more different algorithims and mix them on CDJ's noting that two tracks supposedly at 125 BPM are pitched to +.40% and +.85% respectively in order to get them pretty close to perfectly beatmatched, something isn't right. ;)
And while the way you edit the beat grid in MM is slightly different than in Ableton, but in many ways it's the same process.
Edit: And again, I BUY my music. I swear to God if one more person asks whether or not i'm playing vinyl rips I'm going to all over them. :p |
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| RJT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
But the point is that relying on BPM counters is just a bad, bad, idea and it'll only hurt her progress in the end. Exporting tracks at the rounded BPM's does nothing, because the BPM counters on CDJ's are just not accurate enough to rely on them in any case. So why do it? Break the bad habit before it hurts you. |
Why are you addressing this towards me?
:conf:
We've (Myra and I) have had the conversation before and frankly, I have confidence one day she'll just "get it" much the same way the rest of us did. So really I see no reason to push it on her, as it's things like that (forcing someone to do things a way they aren't ready for) that really probably will take loads of the fun away from her.
She isn't a pro, she isn't trying to be - so I don't see any reason to chastise her for it, as it the odds that it will "hurt her" are pretty minimal.
I think a big problem in this forum is the assumption that everyone here wants to be a pro. They don't, and honestly - sometimes techniques that are generally frowned upon by the "elitists" here are perfectly adequate for people who just enjoy mixing now and then. |
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| RJT |
Also, if the majority of you are spinning modern trance and house that is relatively formulaic and probably made over the course of a weekend in Ableton, well then I'm not surprised to learn that you have never seen a track outside of a whole number BPM.
Extend your horizons people - not all EDM was made on a Dell desktop or Powermac.
;) |
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| lücid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
Does that actually change the tempo of the track? Or is it essentially just you telling Mixmeister what the actual tempo of the track is?
If you're not sure, compare the file sizes of the original & output files - if they're the same size, it's not making any difference. Or just change the tempo to 200 bpm or something and see if it sounds silly after rendering. |
you can change the tempo or key of the track in Mixmeister, and if you change it too far from what the original BPM/key is, it will sound like utter garbage. also the output file will be longer or shorter depending on which way you increase/decrease the BPM. i haven't bothered checking the size because i usually bring them in as 320kbps MP3s and export them as WAVs and burn them just like that, so the file size will inevitably be bigger regardless of what i do to it.
| quote: | Originally posted by RJT
We've (Myra and I) have had the conversation before and frankly, I have confidence one day she'll just "get it" much the same way the rest of us did. So really I see no reason to push it on her, as it's things like that (forcing someone to do things a way they aren't ready for) that really probably will take loads of the fun away from her.
She isn't a pro, she isn't trying to be - so I don't see any reason to chastise her for it, as it the odds that it will "hurt her" are pretty minimal.
I think a big problem in this forum is the assumption that everyone here wants to be a pro. They don't, and honestly - sometimes techniques that are generally frowned upon by the "elitists" here are perfectly adequate for people who just enjoy mixing now and then. |
thank you for clarifying this for me.
we all do things different ways, just the same way 2 people who are proficient in Photoshop could use an entirely different process to do the same thing. maybe i'm wasting my time, but like i said, i'm still new to mixing and i'm not trying to do this as a job or become some amazing technical DJ.. i just do it for fun and i'm still learning, little by little.
i understand you guys are just trying to help me out and i appreciate it, so.. cheers and beers. :) |
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