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Do pro DJ's Standardize the BPM on there CD's?? (pg. 4)
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| basilisk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jarvmeister
I don't check, I just whack it on and use my skills to beatmatch.
Proud to be able to mix with discipline. |
Matching tempos is just what you do before getting to the interesting stuff...
| quote: | Originally posted by Darkarbiter
Surely theres nothing wrong with noticing all your tunes are 139, 138, 141, 142 and standardising them to 140 when you burn to disc? |
I'm a bit of a purist in that I dislike time-stretching, master tempo, keylocking, and other artificial ways of manipulating the tunes at hand... mainly because the quality of the digital processing that goes into these functions can really tear EDM to shreads (triply so for the hyper-produced psytrance of modern days). If you have some kind of perfect standardization method, well, maybe... but it just seems lazy and potentially damaging, all so you can skip out on something that is quite easy in any case (matching them beats).
Like I wrote earlier in this thread, I also feel that BPM changes are an essential part of a dynamic set... take it up, bring it down--just do something with the tempo, as a set that is all at the same speed (or in the same key) is a dreadfully boring way to present music. |
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| darudevil |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Ableton edit your whole set? I don't reckon. More likely pre-rec CD.
Go on, name some names. I don't know of any others....
*cough*BT*cough*Darude*Cough*ATB*Cough |
Ok, I'll bite, just for the fun of it...
If that's what you meant with you sudden hopefully-not-terminal cough I'd like to know where-how-when you've seen me with a pre-recorded dj set cd or a pre-mixed Ableton dj set?
I DO use Ableton and Traktor on my laptop when I play and often I don't even burn cds after last minute edits on tracks because I can mix it in from the laptop almost as easily as with just two cdjs, from either Live or Traktor. The edit might even be a work in progress so that I fix it some more after I've played it to a live crowd and got feedback or reactions that I'm not 100% happy with.
I don't normally export stuff at certain tempos different from the original tempo (an ancient dj saga tells that one bpm equals 0,7-0,8% in my bpm range, so I've done the math, I can mix and match, hehe) but sometimes I fix a "loosely" timed track or an odd time signature spot on a track and export it fixed (or play from the lappie) to fit my use better. Or I do mashups and bootlegs for myself to play but that's whole another story.
I don't like to use master tempo as it usually f**ks up the sound and also makes it harder to mix (at least on some cd players, Traktor's is quite good sounding though) because the attacks slightly "jump" all the time so you tend to think that the mix is off although on average it's on, the flams just happen randomly before and after the solid grid timing. I rarely mix together tracks that are more than 2 bpm apart anyway (excluding some tech(no) and breaks or tribal tracks that have no clashing sounds) because mixing fitting keys together further than that starts sounding too much out of tune/clashing. The other extreme is mixing something a key lower or higher and bpm difference around 6% so the whole key changes. It's rare though that a track sounds good pitched that far from its original tempo.
It's funny that there are people who are sooo worried if someone has found a way to make their life easier, "damn cheaters". I know what some people think of using new technology to aid your craft and I can't help laughing quietly... I get the more advance of these technologies the less "manual" people use "cheats". But I don't call them cheats. I call them common sense. I don't do pre-mixed cds etc, and even when I mix with Traktor I like to nudge the track myself to that perfect match. Still I do love that 134.000bpm on one CDJ deck and 134.000bpm on the other being exactly that, spot on accurate. If I happen to know in advance (and most of the time I do know when I play the music I've pre-listened, made notes of, and often pre-planned back bone of a set or at least tested tracks back and forth) that the next track is the same 134.000 that the current one playing with +1.52% pitch my common sense says that instead of starting from zero pitch and finding out by listening that the other record is faster I'll just put the pitch fader to +1.52% on the other deck as well and trust me, I feel NO sting in my heart WHATSOEVER... ;) |
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| Tangil |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
PvD is the worlds most over rated DJ in my opinion, gets too much credit for not really doing anything in particular.
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Agreed (and you sound fairly bitter about that night Nem), 2005, 2006 and 2007 have seen him go downhill quite a bit, but he's certinaly had his fair share of awesome live sets from way back.
On topic though, my concern with people matching lots of tunes to one tempo is that you'll probably end up playing some tunes at a tempo that doesn't sound that great.
Some songs can change dramatically for better or worse when played at different speeds.
Also, wouldn't doing this have implications for harmonic mixing and just overall energy of the night? Most of the time sets change bpm up and down depending on length. |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tangil
Agreed (and you sound fairly bitter about that night Nem), 2005, 2006 and 2007 have seen him go downhill quite a bit, but he's certinaly had his fair share of awesome live sets from way back.
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Yes I am bitter about that night. Perhaps DJing politics is clouding my judgement on the man which perhaps isn't fair. I was very disapointed by the performance though as I had resigned myself to still enjoying the night and wasn't able to do that either.
Oh no RANN!
You have upset Darude! This guy can write if nothing else. Be prepared to fight tooth and nail for your corner he he. Trust me on this, we have history. ;)
Darude, nice to see you are still lurking around, would be nice though if you could perhaps partake in some of the other discussions as you have another world of experience that would benefit a lot of the young DJs here.
Cheers
Nem |
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| darudevil |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
Darude, nice to see you are still lurking around, would be nice though if you could perhaps partake in some of the other discussions as you have another world of experience that would benefit a lot of the young DJs here.
Cheers
Nem |
Hey Nem, yeah, I'm here, utilizing the only skill I have ;)
I don't wanna sound overly whiny or sensitive but the forever ongoing *cough*this dj*cough*that dj by people who often seem to just point fingers (or *cough*) without knowing actual facts is not very inviting basis for fruitful experience sharing... ;) But, ask a question if you will, I'll answer when I have a chance to sit down again.
While you're thinking of a question, here's a shameless plug of two of my new tracks (or maybe that'll spark a question?): They can be previewed on my MySpace site (www.myspace.com/darude) as well as a music video for the other one. There are several remixes of both on the actual singles, not all of them sounding that commercial at all, not all using vocals much at all either. (Disclaimer: The previews are in original RADIO EDIT form, so djs might not get the full picture. Also, by no means I'm going all rocky male vocal on the album though you could maybe draw that kinda conclusion from these two tracks ;) ) |
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| Nemesis44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by darudevil
Hey Nem, yeah, I'm here, utilizing the only skill I have ;) |
He he, come on dude, did I say it was the only skill you had? Just commenting on the age old theory that the pen is mightier than the sword or in your case the atomic bomb. ;)
Sent you PM by the way.
Cheers
Nem |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nemesis44
Oh no RANN!
You have upset Darude! This guy can write if nothing else. Be prepared to fight tooth and nail for your corner he he. Trust me on this, we have history. ;)
Darude, nice to see you are still lurking around, would be nice though if you could perhaps partake in some of the other discussions as you have another world of experience that would benefit a lot of the young DJs here.
Cheers
Nem |
Nem - do tell!
Darude good to see you on this forum - I have to say, I can't remember seeing a post from you in a very long time. Nem gets at a interesting point though, I think a lot of pro's dip in and out of this forum only to contribute when their name is in question or to erm....plug something. ;)
It's a shame they (and please do if any others are reading) don't
contribute their experience more.
I've never said I don't think people should use the tools at their disposal, the more the better - apart from when it detracts from the the musical or performance quality. I find over programming makes a dj performance lacklustre and boring. I do hold fast on that I feel like I'm getting ripped off when dj/artists use pre mixed CD's. I think most people do, especially those of us who take beat matching for granted and don't want to go clubbing to mix tapes.
On a serious note, there's really no need to get sensitive - I wish I had one one tenth of the success you've had and you've got to realise that with that success comes judgements from people who don't know you.
Having said that, about 3/4 years ago you played in Zurich, Switzerland at one of the street parade events an unless you've mastered the ability to do a mix psychokinetically, it was pre-rec from one tune in to another without touching any kit - in fact having a conversation with someone - it may well have been a mashup - in which case my bad - but it clearly went from one tune to the other while you didn't touch any equipment in the booth.
ps. *cough*
PPS. hey, isn't it a compliment to lumped in the same sentence as BT. even if it is for the wring reasons.
Oh, and before I get flamingjune'd, I better back myself up: I have also seen him just play a few piano lines over a CD at Creamfields, rather than proper live set as advertised. |
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| Ryan0751 |
Actually, you can use the BPM counters on the CDJ's with relative accuracy... The trick? When you are starting out your set, find the point at which the display JUST changes, say jumps from 127->128 BPM.
At that pitch, you'll be between 127.4 and 127.6, provided it's a pretty good track for the BPM detection algorithm.
You'll find a trend at which point the BPM starts to jump... out of my head, I know the plus side things is +.42%, +1.18%, +2.02%, etc.
When you are throwing down the next track, just look for that same "jump" point between 127->128 bpm (which will probably be at a different pitch of course), and 9 times out of 10 you'll be within .05% of the correct pitch.
Now you would have thought I spent a lot of time figuring this to avoid beat matching, but that's not it at all. I simply noticed the trend over time, and even though I can certainly match by ear (I play vinyl as well, where there are no tricks), it really does make things quicker and typically more accurate.
Don't rely on it though, it's not always fool proof.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jarvmeister
That's just not true, if you mix a tune at 130.64bpm, you're display will tell you you're either on 130 or 131. So what about 130.01, 130.02, 130.03, 130.04 etc etc?? You still need a good ear for that if your mixing is to sound tight.
Jarv |
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| RJT |
The only problem with that is I honestly seem to have a TON of tunes that aren't XX.0 - loads of them at are maybe 126.88 or 124.95, and when that happens you get the jump at around .4, 1.2, etc. but it's completely inaccurate.
Gotta use those ears kiddies ;) |
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| Omega_M |
| Didn't know Darude was a TA. :eyes: |
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| SPAWNmaster |
completely agree..this is just one of the little tricks you pick up by the time beatmatching is second nature...
| quote: | Originally posted by Ryan0751
Actually, you can use the BPM counters on the CDJ's with relative accuracy... The trick? When you are starting out your set, find the point at which the display JUST changes, say jumps from 127->128 BPM.
At that pitch, you'll be between 127.4 and 127.6, provided it's a pretty good track for the BPM detection algorithm.
You'll find a trend at which point the BPM starts to jump... out of my head, I know the plus side things is +.42%, +1.18%, +2.02%, etc.
When you are throwing down the next track, just look for that same "jump" point between 127->128 bpm (which will probably be at a different pitch of course), and 9 times out of 10 you'll be within .05% of the correct pitch.
Now you would have thought I spent a lot of time figuring this to avoid beat matching, but that's not it at all. I simply noticed the trend over time, and even though I can certainly match by ear (I play vinyl as well, where there are no tricks), it really does make things quicker and typically more accurate.
Don't rely on it though, it's not always fool proof. |
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