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Shia rape victim sentenced to jail and 200 lashes in Saudi Arabia (pg. 13)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Freedom of mobility, meaning no one is bared from exiting the country, exists in Sudi Arabia. If one chooses to opt out of the social contract they are allowed to leave. With regard to revolt; it may not be easy, but it is possible. If a revolt is put down by force and those that survive do not rise again then they have accepted the social contract... they are willing to live in that state. |
wow. i never thought i would hear that kind of bollocks from you! :p if a woman cannot go to the mall by herself, how is she to flee the whole nation should her male relatives object?
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This isn't an issue of morality, it is an issue about the legitimacy of law. Whether or not we consider the law to be just is inconsequential as we do not live under it. It is not up to us to force our justice system onto others. The way the west calls for change in the rest of the world is simply the modern version of "the white man's burden" and I think we know how well that played out in the 1800s. |
who said anything about "forcing"? neither i nor george have advocated an invasion. there is, however, plenty of other means to express our distaste for regimes such as saudi. it is every liberal democracy's duty to speak up for the oppressed peoples around the globe, and do what they can to expedite change.
culture is merely the social manifestation of an idea(s). not all ideas are equal, and they shouldn't be treated as such. laws that oppress women or punish rape victims are not legitimate, regardless of how many people "accept" the social contract. contracts signed under duress are not enforceable agreements.
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I believe the key here is the word some. |
"some" = enough people to elect him, which to my mind, is more than enough to constitute your contract. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| So, I started to write a response to the above but quickly realized my desire to play devil's advocate had expired. |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
So, I started to write a response to the above but quickly realized my desire to play devil's advocate had expired. |
lol :) |
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| LazFX |
I just heard that they are protesting in the streets to have this woman killed for her insult to islam.... WTF is wrong with these people!!!
Mohamed is like a common name in islam cultures, right??
Can you see why now Muslims have a bad rap? If I was muslim I would beat the out of these back ward focks for bringing shame & disgust to my religion..... oh wait thats what they are calling for her death for doing.... :rolleyes:
| quote: | KHARTOUM, Sudan (CNN) -- Hundreds of protesters brandishing swords and sticks gathered outside Khartoum's presidential palace Friday to vent their anger against a British teacher jailed for allowing children to name a teddy bear "Mohammed."
About 600 Islamic demonstrators piled out of mosques, chanting: "By soul, by blood, I will fight for the Prophet Mohammed." Some of the protesters demanded the teacher's execution, according to The Associated Press.
The agency reports that some chanted: "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."
The decision by a Sudanese court to jail Gillian Gibbons late Thursday was widely criticized outside Sudan as too harsh, with British Foreign Secretary David Miliband saying he was "extremely disappointed" the charges were not dismissed.
Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a prominent cleric and hardliner, told worshippers Friday at the Martyrs Mosque: "Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," according to AP. But he did not urge worshippers to protest.
In leaflets distributed earlier this week by Muslim groups and seen by CNN, the protesters promised a "popular release of anger" at demonstrations called for Friday.
The leaflets condemned Gibbons as an "infidel" and accused her of "the pollution of children's mentality" by her actions.
The teacher was convicted of insulting religion but cleared of two other charges of inciting hatred and showing contempt for religious beliefs, Ali Ajeb, her lawyer said. Watch latest developments in the caseVideo
Ajeb said they were planning to appeal the sentence, which runs from the date she was first detained, November 25.
Gibbons, 54, is being held in a woman's prison in the Omdurman district of Khartoum and she will be deported at the end of her prison term, British consular officials in the city told CNN.
Embassy staff said they were giving the teacher, from the northern English city of Liverpool, full consular assistance. VideoWatch a report on reactions to the verdict »
Omer Mohammed Ahmed Siddig, the Sudanese ambassador to Britain, was summoned for a second time to meet with the British foreign secretary late Thursday after the court's ruling.
Miliband also spoke to the Sudanese acting foreign minister for 15 minutes on the telephone during the meeting, the British Foreign Office said.
"Our priority now is to ensure Ms. Gibbons' welfare and we will continue to provide consular assistance to her," Miliband said in a statement.
The Foreign Office said there would be further talks with the Sudanese government Friday.
Gibbons was arrested Sunday after she asked her class of seven-year-olds in Khartoum to name the toy as part of a school project, the Foreign Office said.
She had faced charges under Article 125 of Sudan's constitution, the law relating to insulting religion and inciting hatred.
She could have faced a sentence of 40 lashes, a fine or jail term of up to a year, according to the Foreign Office, which expressed Britain's dissatisfaction with the verdict.
British newspapers condemned Gibbons' conviction, with The Daily Telegraph calling for the recall of the British ambassador from Khartoum and sanctions against the heads of the Sudanese government.
In an editorial the tabloid newspaper, The Sun, said Gibbons' jailing was a "grotesque insult to Islam" and called Gibbons "an innocent abroad."
Four vans filled with riot police were stationed outside the courthouse at Thursday's hearing, but there were no signs of street disturbances or protests.
Staff from Gibbons' school, including Robert Boulos, the head of Unity High School, were present.
Boulos said he was "horrified" when he found out it was a member of his own staff who complained, not a parent as originally thought.
Defense counsel later confirmed that the complaint came from Sarah Khawad, a secretary at the school.
Gibbons has been working at the school -- popular with wealthy Sudanese and expatriates -- since August, after leaving her position as deputy head teacher at a primary school in Liverpool this summer, Boulos said.
He said Gibbons asked the children to pick their favorite name for the new class mascot, which she was using to aid lessons about animals and their habitats.
Journalist Andrew Heavens contributed to this report.
All AboutSudan
Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/afric...ears/index.html |
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/afric...ears/index.html |
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| George Smiley |
"Some" out of 600 = an accurate portrayal of the entire Muslim population of Earth?! :conf:
What about those Sudanese that have come out and supported her publicly? |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
So, I started to write a response to the above but quickly realized my desire to play devil's advocate had expired. |
Oh. You were playing "devil's advocate" were you?
Or have you suddenly realised you were talking absolute garbage when you attempted to justify the oppressive actions of the Saudi state? |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
"Some" out of 600 = an accurate portrayal of the entire Muslim population of Earth?! :conf:
What about those Sudanese that have come out and supported her publicly? |
aye jorge, you do keep me in check..... you are the frog and I am the scorpion |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Oh. You were playing "devil's advocate" were you?
Or have you suddenly realised you were talking absolute garbage when you attempted to justify the oppressive actions of the Saudi state? |
I was playing. I do that fairly frequently... it's a good intellectual exercise. Compare what I've said earlier in this thread to the views I normally express, you'll see the difference. pkcRAISTLIN picked up on it. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I was playing. I do that fairly frequently... it's a good intellectual exercise. Compare what I've said earlier in this thread to the views I normally express, you'll see the difference. pkcRAISTLIN picked up on it. |
It's called trolling... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by LazFX
aye jorge, you do keep me in check..... you are the frog and I am the scorpion |
If I were the frog I'd be walking on the bottom of the in river! |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
if a woman cannot go to the mall by herself |
Actually, she can. She just needs to take a cab (or a driver, as most Saudi families have one). |
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| LazFX |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
If I were the frog I'd be walking on the bottom of the in river! |
nah, if you are the frog you would be carrying me across the river ;)
| quote: | | The Scorpion and the Frog is a fable often mis-attributed to Aesop. The story is about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion reassures him that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown as well. The frog then agrees; nevertheless, in mid-river, the scorpion stings him, dooming the two of them. When asked why, the scorpion explains, "I'm a scorpion; it's my nature." |
;) |
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