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Shia rape victim sentenced to jail and 200 lashes in Saudi Arabia (pg. 3)
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
America currently gives Israel $3billion a year in military aid. Considering Israel spends $9billion a year that's a ing hell of a lot!
But not only that, America gives Saudi Arabia $2billion a year for military aid! Not bad considering Saudi Arabia funds al-Qaida and has an appalling human rights record...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/6920988.stm
But hey, who are we to question the logic of American foreign policy? |
HOLY ! i meant Camp David. you can thank Clinton for Oslo:p
anyway, write my Congressman to to cancel Camp David and end military aid to Israel, Egypt even the Sauds. i'll help you seriously.;) |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
thanks to Jimmy Carter and the Oslo Accord. Egypt, additionally, gets about the same.
all economic aid is given directly to the Israeli government rather than allocated under a specific program so you are wrong to say "additionally" when referencing what they spend as a % of GDP.:rolleyes: ...of which they are only allowed to spend a percentage of what we give them on their military. |
So egypt gets all the sophisticated weapons systems, fighter jets, and secret technology? Get real dude. This is anecdotal, but my dad working in the pentagon as an international liaison officer, talked about doing diplomacy with the Israelis IN THE PENTAGON. I'm thinking right now, are there Egyptian liaison officers routinely having meetings in the Pentagon?
My entire point in my response to Flotser is that the Israeli military capability far outstrips Iran in all aspects except perhaps asymmetrical warfare. GDP % and aid from the US primarily is evidence of this.
Listen, Q, please stop using the tactic of exagerating Iran as a threat, when if you look at the facts, it really pails in comparison to Israeli systems. If Iran even dares send a nuke at Israel, they will do so expecting Israel to respond in kind MANY TIMES OVER. have you ever heard of "Mutually Assured Distruction"? It kinda keeps nuclear powers in check...:rolleyes: |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
So egypt gets all the sophisticated weapons systems, fighter jets, and secret technology? Get real dude. |
you get in real dude. take a look at Camp David.
Egypt has the most powerful conventional army of all Mid-east countries followed by Turkey a close second. ask your dad. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you get in real dude. take a look at Camp David.
Egypt has the most powerful conventional army of all Mid-east countries followed by Turkey a close second. ask your dad. |
Is anyone bitching about Turkey or Egypt? Stop going off on wild tangents. The neocon thesis is Iran will develop nuclear weapons and go on a Hitler-style blitzkrieg through the Middle East. I'm showing you that Iran's capabilities pail in comparison to the systems capabilities of the Israeli's and they get the most military assistance after Iraq in the Middle East. You idiots are trying to say Iran is the new Nazi Germany. Get ing real!! Iran is a third world populist theocracy! |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Iran is a third world populist theocracy! |
...and they want nukes. don't forget about that. |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
The neocon thesis is Iran will develop nuclear weapons and go on a Hitler-style blitzkrieg through the Middle East. |
no stupid, thats your thesis.
Neocons and intelligent Western Europeans do not want a "third world populist theocracy" that is the world's #1 state supporter of documented terror to have nukes. simple. wtf is so difficult for you?
i've told you before. thats great you've hitched on to the HATE-BUSH-AT-ALL-COSTS bandwagon but i'm warning you, don't let it become a worldview. ok? |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
no stupid, thats your thesis.
Neocons and intelligent Western Europeans do not want a "third world populist theocracy" that is the world's #1 state supporter of documented terror to have nukes. simple. wtf is so difficult for you?
i've told you before. thats great you've hitched on to the HATE-BUSH-AT-ALL-COSTS bandwagon but i'm warning you, don't let it become a worldview. ok? |
I guess you must of skimmed over all the evidence of American support for terrorism? You skimmed over "Mutually Assured Distruction". You've skimmed over Israeli military expenditures and foreign support. I just can't use facts with you now can I? Nobodies denying Iranian support for clandestine militias. But why don't we apply the same damn standard to our own foreign policy? You love blinding yourself to everything we do that goes against our supposed principles, and continue to beat the war drums just like 2002.
Nobodies hating bush at all costs. The leader of the country OBVIOUSLY has failed at his job. Are we supposed to sit by and just say "OH WELL..." Are we supposed to walk in step with whatever the they want to do? HELL NO. When they up, they gotta go, simple as that. There is no "hate". I guess the 60-70% of Americans are Bush haters too right?...:rolleyes: |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
no, but youd be stupid to believe that just like that wouldn't get out of hand. |
But Syria WAS a threat apparently before we moved onto Iran, wasn't it? But lets face it, Syria stopped being a "threat" the moment it was forced to pull out of Lebanon, because the "threat" was only to Israel. Now Iran is supposedly a "threat" but lets face it, is a threat to no-one but Israel (if that)
| quote: | | them being Iran. thats the threat. thats the threat to the region thats the threat to the world if we let them go unabated nuclear. it's that simple. |
Threat to the world?! You tellin me Iran is gonna buy 1000s of the most sophisticated nuclear missiles and fire them around the world?! There is no reason, nuclear or not, that Iran could possibly have for attacking another country (apart from Iraq under Saddam). If they want nukes then it is purely for deterrence only - that cannot be disputed by anyone with an ounce of intelligence
| quote: | | see here's the rub: you and i can say that about ANY country on the planet with total confidence, but can you be as confident when refering to Iran? if you can't be just as confident, even by a smallest of margins, then something must be done. letting them go unhindered in the region is simply not acceptable. |
Yes, I can be as confident about Iran as anywhere else. Next
| quote: | | at the very least, to be as dismissive about it as you are is completely unacceptable. the efforts by France Germany and the UK prove that at least. |
I'm not being dismissive, it's just perfectly logical - if Iran attacks ANY country, they lose, simple as that. Therefore, it stands to perfectly logical reason that Iran, knowing that, would not attack anyone (but may very well pursue policies to prevent them from being attacked - hence they probably do want nukes). You're then gonna say, "but what about the terrorist threat posed by Iran" to which I reply there is none against the West. The only Islamist terrorist threat to the West comes from al-Qaida, and if you know anything about al-Qaida and their ideology there is no way in a million years there would ever be any collaberation between them and Iran. Shi'ite terrorism (ie Hizballah) has only ever been directed against Israel or occupation forces in Iraq. It has never been international like al-Qaida type terrorism, only ever localised, which suggests that solutions to these localised conflicts will prevent further terrorism. Shi'ite extremists (if we want to include the Iranian regime in this bracket) are nowhere near as extreme as their Sunni counterparts and, afaik, have never supported any of these ideologies that want to kill anyone that's non-Muslim. Despite the undisputed fact that Ahmadinejad is a ****, the fact the Jews are guaranteed rights seems to prove that the Shi'ites have no real animosity towards other cultures unless provoked (ie Hizballah).
| quote: | | you used Saudi Arabia as a platform to bash the my country and the West for not accepting what Iran does despite their lack of basic human rights. so you're wrong. this thread is about Iran. |
This thread is purely about Saudi Arabia (or it was until somebody put it completely off topic...). Iran was used as an example to show that US support for Saudi Arabia is even worse than it appears, it is completely hypocritical as well as sick.
| quote: | | it could be about the state of Islam as a whole in the 21st century but that wouldn't support your view that my country is a stupid ing twat for ignoring what the Saudis do. |
I don't think your country is an stupid ing twat because it is an inanimate object and therefore not capable of being a stupid ing twat. The stupid ing twats are those in the American elite who dictate foreign policy, although in the case of Saudi Arabia, not the neoconservatives because they agree with me (altho they are sfts for their support for hostilities towards Iran)
| quote: | | i've already proven that by showing you that Iran does the same thing the Saudis do AND WORSE in addition to wanting nukes. |
But they're not worse, not by a long shot. And to suggest they are shows complete ignorance about Saudi and Iranian politics. Even the examples you gave me were not comparable. Don't get me wrong, Iran has an appalling human rights record as well, but compared to Saudi Arabia they are light years more advanced. Women can vote and stand for election in Iran, as can other minorities (such as Jews). Minorities have rights. In Saudi Arabia, women cannot vote and have no rights whatsoever. And being in a minority is pretty much against the law. The fact that you think life in Saudi Arabia is better than life in Iran just shows how little you know about the subject |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
anyway, write TO my Congressman |
God damnit! What the hell is wrong with Americans and grammar!? |
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| Flotser |
I haven't compared in my post the amount of money spent in Israel and Iran on defence - its irrelevant to what i have posted. My post was about the fact that Iran today is one of the most fanatic countries around, and it repeatedly threatens the west with military actions and with suicide bombings around the world. And its not a secret that today Iran is having a massive arming race.
2 points that George (my new friend :)) raised to which i want to reply:
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Germany was a world superpower, with resources to match it. Iran is a third world country. There is no chance Iran can ever, or will ever, embark down the same road as Nazi Germany... |
Germany was devastated after its loss in WWI, and only 20 years later it became the superpower you describe. In addition Hitler came to power during a period of great economical problems in Germany, and I believe that only since 1932 he turned Germany to the superpower it was.
and well Iran is not short on resources as well, since its one of the worlds largest owners of Oil.
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Hizballah and Hamas also pose no threat to the West. They are both localised terrorist groups that have as their aim the withdrawal of one specific country from their territory. |
Hizabullah is an international terror organization, it has committed several serious suicide attacks around the world. here is an article that talks about it: "Hezbollah's International Reach"
http://www.adl.org/Terror/hezbollah_print.asp |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flotser
Germany was devastated after its loss in WWI, and only 20 years later it became the superpower you describe. In addition Hitler came to power during a period of great economical problems in Germany, and I believe that only since 1932 he turned Germany to the superpower it was.
and well Iran is not short on resources as well, since its one of the worlds largest owners of Oil. |
But those economical problems effected every country around the world, so comparatively, Germany was still a world power. It just does not compare with Iran today. Are you seriously telling me that Iran could ever become equal to America or the EU?!
| quote: | Hizabullah is an international terror organization, it has committed several serious suicide attacks around the world. here is an article that talks about it: "Hezbollah's International Reach"
http://www.adl.org/Terror/hezbollah_print.asp |
Who are we to question the wise and most definitely unbiased views of the ADL?!
Gotta love their lack of sources and the amount of times they resorted to using the word "reportedly"!
Altho maybe the most significant information is the major terrorist attacks carried out by Hizballah at the bottom... |
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| Omega_M |
| wow 200 lashes will probably kill the woman. |
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