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Shia rape victim sentenced to jail and 200 lashes in Saudi Arabia (pg. 2)
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
they want nukes Georgie.
selective reasoning is not an option for intelligent people. |
And how would a nuclear Iran threaten the West any more than a nuclear North Korea does(n't)?
Besides, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here?
Because you seem to be making excuses for Saudi Arabia's actions...is it ok for Saudi Arabia to be quite possibly the most repressive regime in the world, as long as the Saudi "government" (ie not the half of the Saudi government that supports al-Qaida and helped them kill over 3,000 people in New York, but the half that controls the diplomatic and economic aspects of Saudi Arabia) are friends with America? |
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| Flotser |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
And how would a nuclear Iran threaten the West any more than a nuclear North Korea does(n't)?
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because Iran denies the Holocaust, Repetedly threatens to eradicate Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo), Directly funds and supports fundemntalistic islamic groups such as Hamas & Hizbulla - which may in future recieve nuclear weapons\dirty bombs from Iran, because of repeated hatred ceremonies that are broadcasted on national TV: they also don't like your country "Death to England" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDZhIcfV-w
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Ahmanidnjad is the new Hitler, and like Europe closed its eyes until it was too late in WWII, it closes its eyes again. Israel will be the first to suffer, but as the history teaches you, it will not stop there. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flotser
because Iran denies the Holocaust, Repetedly threatens to eradicate Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo), Directly funds and supports fundemntalistic islamic groups such as Hamas & Hizbulla - which may in future recieve nuclear weapons\dirty bombs from Iran, because of repeated hatred ceremonies that are broadcasted on national TV: they also don't like your country "Death to England" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDZhIcfV-w
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Ahmanidnjad is the new Hitler, and like Europe closed its eyes until it was too late in WWII, it closes its eyes again. Israel will be the first to suffer, but as the history teaches you, it will not stop there. |
Germany was a world superpower, with resources to match it. Iran is a third world country. There is no chance Iran can ever, or will ever, embark down the same road as Nazi Germany...
Hizballah and Hamas also pose no threat to the West. They are both localised terrorist groups that have as their aim the withdrawal of one specific country from their territory.
Saudi Arabia on the other hand funds a terrorist group that is not localised, and operates internationally. Al-Qaida was responsible for the worst terrorist attack in history, in America, killing over 3,000 people. Al-Qaida continues to be a threat to the West (unlike Iran) yet America chooses to support a regime that supports al-Qaida, but opposes a country that has not in the past, does not now, and will not in the future, pose any threat to the West.
In short: Saudi Arabia - very real and dangerous threat to the West; Iran - no threat (and it is only a threat to Israel via unconventional means, ie terrorism, and therefore doesn't even pose an existential threat to Israel) |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
And how would a nuclear Iran threaten the West any more than a nuclear North Korea does(n't)? |
easily. we've recently seen and i'm sure you are very aware of what just took place in Syria last month when the Isreali's took out what they thought was a nuke facility. that facility was the sole product of North Korean abetting.
the Norks gave that info to us as a result of our multi-lateral negotiations in ending their efforts.
in any case, i think you are very aware of whats at stake here for the region if Iran goes unhindered regardless of whether they threaten the West or not. no sense in beating around bush.
| quote: | Besides, I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here?
Because you seem to be making excuses for Saudi Arabia's actions... |
i haven't "seemed" to mention Saudi Arabia at all, but if they want nukes i will give them as much hell as well. as a government they don't though.
could they do more to curb homegrown terror? sure. are they duplicitous about it? maybe (the government as a hole i don't believe so) but they don't want to proliferate nukes. thats a very key distinction you should be able to recognise without calling me a "stupid ing twat" about it. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Flotser
because Iran denies the Holocaust, Repetedly threatens to eradicate Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FckLO8HcNyo), Directly funds and supports fundemntalistic islamic groups such as Hamas & Hizbulla - which may in future recieve nuclear weapons\dirty bombs from Iran, because of repeated hatred ceremonies that are broadcasted on national TV: they also don't like your country "Death to England" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRDZhIcfV-w
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Ahmanidnjad is the new Hitler, and like Europe closed its eyes until it was too late in WWII, it closes its eyes again. Israel will be the first to suffer, but as the history teaches you, it will not stop there. |
Wow, ok...
You need to look at defense spending of your country, Israel, and Iran.
CIA World Factbook
Iran = 2.5% GDP (2006)
Israel = 7.3% GDP (2006)
Additionally, Israel gets 10's of BILLIONS of dollars in economic, and military technology and hardware from the US, and has been for decades. Iran pales in comparisn to the Israeli Defense Forces. Israel also is reputed to have over 400 deliverable thermonuclear weapons (source: Brower, Kenneth S., “A Propensity for Conflict: Potential Scenarios and Outcomes of War in the Middle East,” Jane's Intelligence Review, Special Report no. 14, (February 1997), 14-15.0). Whatever Iran can muster, Israel has already done it, and more. You are an idiot if you think Iran will commit national suicide by sending over nukes to Israel. Tell me, who are the suicide bombers of the world? They're Sunnis. Shiites have refrained from suicide bombings. So saying Iran will basically jihad itself into oblivian is really idiotic.
What's even more stupid is comparing today's scenario to one of the past. As an economist, we never believe the past gaurentees the future. You have blinded yourself with anecdotal evidence like Hitler, instead of looking at the facts. Look at military expenditures. Look at economies, look at capabilities. And stop beating the war drum and sucking my country into your wars!! |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
easily. we've recently seen and i'm sure you are very aware of what just took place in Syria last month when the Isreali's took out what they thought was a nuke facility. that facility was the sole product of North Korean abetting.
the Norks gave that info to us as a result of our multi-lateral negotiations in ending their efforts.
in any case, i think you are very aware of whats at stake here for the region if Iran goes unhindered regardless of whether they threaten the West or not. no sense in beating around bush. |
Oh so now Syria is a threat to the West?! Anyone else while were at it?!
I'll ask again: How would a nuclear Iran threaten the West? Do you honestly think they'd fire a missile at us?!
India and Pakistan have had nuclear missiles for years, and they hate each other as much as Iran and Israel hate each other, but they have never fired nuclear weapons at each other.
Everybody knows that nuclear weapons are not for use, but only for deterrence. Iran knows that it is on America's radar and nuclear weapons would guarantee they did not suffer a similar fate as Iraq.
No way in a million years would Iran use nuclear weapons against America or Israel as if it did it would be wiped off the map, and even religious people are not prepared for that to happen...
| quote: | | i haven't "seemed" to mention Saudi Arabia at all |
Fantastic! Especially when one considers this is a thread about Saudi Arabia!
| quote: | | but if they want nukes i will give them as much hell as well. as a government they don't though. |
As I said above, nuclear weapons are for deterrence only. Vulnerable countries might feel the need for this deterrence if they feel threatened (by America). Saudi Arabia is protected by America so Saudi Arabia doesn't need them (or feel threatened).
| quote: | | could they do more to curb homegrown terror? sure. are they duplicitous about it? maybe (the government as a hole i don't believe so) but they don't want to proliferate nukes. thats a very key distinction you should be able to recognise without calling me a "stupid ing twat" about it. |
I don't recall ever calling you a stupid ing twat (guilty conscience?!)
The point about comparing the threat from Iran's supposed nuclear weapons programme is that it would not pose a threat to the West (all it would do is prevent America invading).
Terrorism on the other hand does pose a threat, as we've seen in both our countries.
The "stupid ing twats" comment (aimed at the American government) is in relation to the fact they are ignoring a real threat to chase imaginary threats (just like their missle defence shield)
Even if, lets say, Iran did pose a threat, that still does not negate the Saudi terrorist threat and still does not explain why America is happy for thousands of its citizens to have died and do nothing to address the issue... |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Tell me, who are the suicide bombers of the world? They're Sunnis. Shiites have refrained from suicide bombings. So saying Iran will basically jihad itself into oblivian is really idiotic. |
Actually (Shi'ite) Hizballah perfected the art of suicide bombing amongst the Islamist terrorist organisations, who inspired Hamas. I believe Hizballah were taught this technique by the Japanese Red Army who were involved in many Palestinian terrorist attacks with the other Marxist factions. Which along with the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka (another Marxist terrorist group) shows you that suicide bombing is not the sole possession of Islamists... |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Actually (Shi'ite) Hizballah perfected the art of suicide bombing amongst the Islamist terrorist organisations, who inspired Hamas... |
I'm really talking about today's circumstances. Iraqi and Afghani suicide bombers have been sunnis. Al-qaida is sunni. 9/11 hijackers were sunni. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
I'm really talking about today's circumstances. Iraqi and Afghani suicide bombers have been sunnis. Al-qaida is sunni. 9/11 hijackers were sunni. |
I suppose, tho should the need arise, I have no doubt Hizballah would begin suicide bombings in an instant. One note of interest tho, which supports what you are trying to say, is that Shi'ite extremism (and Shi'ism in general) is a hell of a lot less extreme in their beliefs, practices and actions than their Sunni counterparts... |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Wow, ok...
You need to look at defense spending of your country, Israel, and Iran.
CIA World Factbook
Iran = 2.5% GDP (2006)
Israel = 7.3% GDP (2006)
Additionally, Israel gets 10's of BILLIONS of dollars in economic, and military technology and hardware from the US, and has been for decades. |
thanks to Jimmy Carter and the Oslo Accord. Egypt, additionally, gets about the same.
all economic aid is given directly to the Israeli government rather than allocated under a specific program so you are wrong to say "additionally" when referencing what they spend as a % of GDP.:rolleyes: ...of which they are only allowed to spend a percentage of what we give them on their military. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
thanks to Jimmy Carter and the Oslo Accord. Egypt, additionally, gets about the same.
all economic aid is given directly to the Israeli government rather than allocated under a specific program so you are wrong to say "additionally" when referencing what they spend as a % of GDP.:rolleyes: ...of which they are only allowed to spend a percentage of what we give them on their military. |
America currently gives Israel $3billion a year in military aid. Considering Israel spends $9billion a year that's a ing hell of a lot!
But not only that, America gives Saudi Arabia $2billion a year for military aid! Not bad considering Saudi Arabia funds al-Qaida and has an appalling human rights record...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/6920988.stm
But hey, who are we to question the logic of American foreign policy? |
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Oh so now Syria is a threat to the West?! |
no, but youd be stupid to believe that just like that wouldn't get out of hand.
| quote: | | I'll ask again: How would a nuclear Iran threaten the West? |
them being Iran. thats the threat. thats the threat to the region thats the threat to the world if we let them go unabated nuclear. it's that simple.
| quote: | | No way in a million years would Iran use nuclear weapons against America or Israel as if it did it would be wiped off the map, and even religious people are not prepared for that to happen... |
see here's the rub: you and i can say that about ANY country on the planet with total confidence, but can you be as confident when refering to Iran? if you can't be just as confident, even by a smallest of margins, then something must be done. letting them go unhindered in the region is simply not acceptable.
at the very least, to be as dismissive about it as you are is completely unacceptable. the efforts by France Germany and the UK prove that at least.
| quote: | | Fantastic! Especially when one considers this is a thread about Saudi Arabia! |
you used Saudi Arabia as a platform to bash the my country and the West for not accepting what Iran does despite their lack of basic human rights. so you're wrong. this thread is about Iran.
it could be about the state of Islam as a whole in the 21st century but that wouldn't support your view that my country is a stupid ing twat for ignoring what the Saudis do.
i've already proven that by showing you that Iran does the same thing the Saudis do AND WORSE in addition to wanting nukes. |
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