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Shia rape victim sentenced to jail and 200 lashes in Saudi Arabia (pg. 7)
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
I don't agree with capital punishment. I think its a barbaric act carried out by savages. |
Nice half-ass answer :rolleyes: like the rest of your responses. You don't seem to want to discuss things in a rational way, you are being way too emotional. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
Nice half-ass answer :rolleyes: like the rest of your responses. You don't seem to want to discuss things in a rational way, you are being way too emotional. |
| quote: | Statement by Jose Manuel Barroso, President of the Commission
The European Union is unreservedly opposed to the use of capital punishment under all circumstances and has consistently called for the worldwide abolition of this punishment," said President Barroso. "The death penalty is against human dignity. We want to give visibility to the efforts of the many non-governmental organisations and individuals who strive, day after day, towards the abolition of the death penalty. |
My "half-ass answer" sounds eerily similar to the President of the EU Commission's statement. I don't agree with the death penalty, what more exactly do you want me to say? |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
My "half-ass answer" sounds eerily similar to the President of the EU Commission's statement. I don't agree with the death penalty, what more exactly do you want me to say? |
Because you conveniently chose not respond on the U.S.'s practices. Clearly, your government (U.K.) does not view defenders of capital punishement as savages which is why when Bush says "jump", Blair said "how high?" lol :haha:
(unless of course, to partner with a savage you have to be a savage yourself) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
Because you conveniently chose not respond on the U.S.'s practices. Clearly, your government (U.K.) does not view defenders of capital punishement as savages which is why when Bush says "jump", Blair said "how high?" lol :haha: |
Oh sorry, so when I said I was against the death penalty, you didn't make the assumption I meant against every country that had the death penalty? Would you like me to list every country that still has the death penalty individually and tell you whether I'm for or against that particular country having the death penalty? Or are you being deliberately thick? |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Oh sorry, so when I said I was against the death penalty, you didn't make the assumption I meant against every country that had the death penalty? Would you like me to list every country that still has the death penalty individually and tell you whether I'm for or against that particular country having the death penalty? Or are you being deliberately thick? |
keep digging. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
keep digging. |
I find that comment rich from someone who would try to justify laws that allow women to be lashed (most likely to death) because they "associated" with strange men. Tell me, which other Saudi laws to you find perfectly reasonable? That it should be against the law for women to show their hair in public? Or how about those school girls who were burned alive in their school because the religious police would not let them out as they were not dressed appropriately? |
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| Omega_M |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
How about capital punishment? Do murderers have a right to live? Why does the beacon of democracy, U.S.A., still allow for capital punishment? |
To punish a rape victim because she ended up in the wrong place is not the same as punishing a murder who has taken someone's life. Your argument is totally unrelated to the issue at hand. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
I find that comment rich from someone who would try to justify laws that allow women to be lashed (most likely to death) because they "associated" with strange men. Tell me, which other Saudi laws to you find perfectly reasonable? That it should be against the law for women to show their hair in public? Or how about those school girls who were burned alive in their school because the religious police would not let them out as they were not dressed appropriately? |
nice attempt at further avoiding the root of the issue, which is that a criticism of non-democratic governments (i.e. sharia/Saudi) for having inhumane forms of punishment (i.e. capital) and blaming this practice on the form of government (i.e. sharia law) will not hold if you can't rationalize the same criticism against a democratic government which allows the same punishment. Simple logic! :)
Omega_M, your comment is way too unclear for me to respond. What do you mean by, "punishing a rape victim for being in the wrong place"? Do you understand what the punishment was for in this case? If you do, perhaps I can then explain the connection, only within the context of George's criticisms (otherwise I would never compare the two), but because of George's argument which involved "universal principles", I thought it was appropriate to introduce the example. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
nice attempt at further avoiding the root of the issue, which is that a criticism of non-democratic governments (i.e. sharia/Saudi) for having inhumane forms of punishment (i.e. capital) and blaming this practice on the form of government (i.e. sharia law) will not hold if you can't rationalize the same criticism against a democratic government which allows the same punishment. Simple logic! :)
Omega_M, your comment is way too unclear for me to respond. What do you mean by, "punishing a rape victim for being in the wrong place"? Do you understand what the punishment was for in this case? If you do, perhaps I can then explain the connection, only within the context of George's criticisms (otherwise I would never compare the two), but because of George's argument which involved "universal principles", I thought it was appropriate to introduce the example. |
But I do criticise America for having the death penalty! Jesus ing Christ! |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
But I do criticise America for having the death penalty! Jesus ing Christ! |
lol you're criticizing them but you're not digging deeper for the reason why they still have it, or why the U.K. had it until recently. Those are the same reasons Saudi has it, and it's not because of the type of government! ;) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
lol you're criticizing them but you're not digging deeper for the reason why they still have it, or why the U.K. had it until recently. Those are the same reasons Saudi has it, and it's not because of the type of government! ;) |
but why are you talking about the death penalty at all when we're talking about a woman being lashed for consorting with a man who was not a relative?
give me your "moral relativist" stance on that. the reasons for which the saudi's would use the punishment are far wider than most other states.
and you know why it is? because they have a government ruled by antiquated religious doctrine. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
lol you're criticizing them but you're not digging deeper for the reason why they still have it, or why the U.K. had it until recently. Those are the same reasons Saudi has it, and it's not because of the type of government! ;) |
Yea because Saudi Arabia is a backwards society that's still in the dark ages. America is on the verge of entering into the modern world when it also abolishes the death penalty, but compared to Saudi Arabia, America is light years more advanced.
And how can it not be because of the government?! Governments make and enforce laws. The Saudi regime decided women should be murdered if they have an affair. You're gonna say this is cultural but what difference does that make?
BTW - what are your views on the rights of women? Do you consider them to be equal to men? Do you think they should be free to do whatever they want? |
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