Originally posted by Stef De Roux
Sorry you wont sway me with ad-hominem attacks and attempts just call me an idiot for having an opinion that people my age (i just turned 17 today) usually do not even fathom. Though i enjoyed reading your post, as it gives a different perspective to me.
First, I never called you an idiot.
Second, and more importantly, do you pay taxes? It's that simple. If you don't, you have no right to complain about the tax policy.
Stef De Roux
quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
First, I never called you an idiot.
Second, and more importantly, do you pay taxes? It's that simple. If you don't, you have no right to complain about the tax policy.
Not anymore because i quit working at shoprite so i could focus more time onto the SATs
Stef De Roux
quote:
Originally posted by ownymcown
Lol there's no excuse for ignorance, either you know it or you don't.
Sorry next time i will post page length rants so you can assess my knowledge:rolleyes:
And i think you should read the question posed to me before you simply read my answer.
Groundhog Boy
quote:
Originally posted by Stef De Roux
Not anymore because i quit working at shoprite so i could focus more time onto the SATs
At least you're smart enough to try to covertly undermine a comment, though. When you can get away with it, it works pretty well.
BTW, I worked in a grocery store for a measly $4.25-$5.15 back in high school, so consider yourself lucky at shoprite these days.
zachias31
Jesus Christ, give him a break. I didn't even know what economics was in 11th grade.
Stasis
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Eco
There is no place for your opinions in here, you've only just turned 17 today, man!!! Happy birthday, btw hahaha.... However, you'll soon go to College and be enlightened with how the rest of this intelligent city thinks
And you're 20? Are you currently in college?
You sound like your issue with Obama is just an issue with his media image/fan-base.
Just some things to consider:
1) Hillary can't claim experience from the White House. Does Laura Bush have 7-years of executive experience? Should she be qualified to run for president? The experience argument for Hillary is overwhelmingly an exaggeration. She has 3 more years in the Senate than Obama.
2) Hillary ultimately voted to authorize the war in Iraq, while Obama spoke out against it. It wasn't easy to speak out at the time either. He was in the midst of a Senate campaign during a period of time when presidential support was at 70%. He was right then, and deserves credit.
This ultimately reveals that at the heart of this emotional, hysterical sea of supporters and Wil.i.am YouTube videos (who seem to be so repulsive to you as to poison your vision of Obama), lies a candidate who is more thoughtful, more measured, and who exhibits better judgement than any other candidate.
Uncle ED
I think Ill just move to Europe......
DJ Eco
quote:
Originally posted by Stasis
And you're 20? Are you currently in college?
I'm 21 and in Architecture school, yeah... I know Stef/Steven, so that was a little joking jab at him, so don't think I was being brutally condescending, even if I do sorta mean what I said... I'd like to think that I have a lot wider world perspective now than when I did 4/5 years ago when I was 17/just-turned-17, and I wasn't a little kid's kid then either, but I think I've read and been through enough and traveled enough to have a wider view of things from what may *seem* like only a short time ago... I think most people on the board that know me very well can say I am a bit older than my years, so I don't think that should be an issue with me.
quote:
Originally posted by Stasis
2) Hillary ultimately voted to authorize the war in Iraq, while Obama spoke out against it. It wasn't easy to speak out at the time either. He was in the midst of a Senate campaign during a period of time when presidential support was at 70%. He was right then, and deserves credit.
Many people are forgetting that, at the time, a huuuuuge majority of the country was for the war!!! I was strongly against it, and if there's one thing that irks me about her record, it's that. But it's ridiculous to see people on TV, friends of mine, other politicians making this big hoopla over her support for the war, when 80% of the country was sucked into it too!! Now all of a sudden, the American people are smarter and deserve another statndard, and she's still the villain for supporting it?
The constant harping and very few but repetitive talking points from BOTH sides of the campaign piss me off. If we were going to select a president solely because he was against the war (and had he been in office, we must wonder what his decision woulda been THEN), we have several other more intelligent, more experienced, more well-spoken, and more deserving members of the Senate or House that we should be urging to run... I never knew there was an end-all and be-all with one issue, while any tangible record or substance (outside of speeches) is thrown out the window???
As far as his "fan-base", I think some of the ridiculousness of the cult that has grown up around him is hurting him. I've said many times, what happens among his supporters is no reflection of anything that stems from Obama or his campaign, but they're hurting him. They are CONVINCED that Hillary is splitting up the party. Who are "they"?, you need to ask yourself... The most vocal and diehard supporters are people whose first or second time taking part in an election. They are extremely loyal to him but not necessarily to the Democratic party... And when he loses, they won't for Hillary, because they've been brainwashed to think she's the devil or something. I got news for you, they're both slinging , and the moment you realize that Hill isn't the only bitch using attack-tactics in this race, the easier it will be to bite your tongue and support the Democratic party, which is a better result for us all, even if it's not YOUR guy (pout pout)...
Statistics show that people who voted for Hillary are consistant Democrat supporters/voters, while a huge number of Obama supporters are either new voters, as well as many independents and crossover Republicans. This will be my fourth election/time-to-vote (including Senate races, House, and local elections) and I will stand behind the Democratic party no matter who the candidate is... For the children shouting that Hillary's a crybaby: if you're not supporting the party in the general election because "your guy" didn't win, you're being the crybaby, and you're letting our country fall into the hands of another ty four years, if McCain wins... You're not "proving" anything but how selfish, frenzied, and irrational the average Obama fanboys are. This is, of course, if he loses and you don't vote for Hillary... You're not making any revolutionary statement.
I'd like you Hillary-haters to name one thing she's done wrong in the Senate, other than her vote for the war?? Obviously, you can Google now, but if we were face-to-face, I would have proven my point.
DJ Eco
Hillary Clinton missed 137 votes in her 7 years in the Senate. Barack Obama missed 192 votes in his 3 years in the Senate, not including the 137 votes of "present" (not "no" or "yes")... He's missed 80% of Senate votes since September, more than any other Presidential hopeful; compare that to Biden's 68%, Dodd's 65%, and Hillary's (the lowest) 63%. We're paying his salary so he can get up on a stump and "follow his dream" and make you guys "hope" for "change". Is he REALLY working for you, guys?
Watch that video, and I rest my case...
Stasis
You understand that the vast majority of Senate resolutions are minor and do not affect most voters' interests. Please look up how many of those missed votes were for the renaming of libraries and the establishing of new post offices...
Hillary also voted to declare Iran's republican guard a terrorist group, feeding into the justification for any future invasion of that country. She also voted for the Patriot Act, and skipped the recently important vote on removing telecom immunity for eavesdropping (Barack was present and voted to remove immunity).
Anyway, in her calculations to appear "tough enough", she's consistently voted against our civil interests.
DJ Eco
quote:
Originally posted by Stasis
You understand that the vast majority of Senate resolutions are minor and do not affect most voters' interests. Please look up how many of those missed votes were for the renaming of libraries and the establishing of new post offices...
Hillary also voted to declare Iran's republican guard a terrorist group, feeding into the justification for any future invasion of that country. She also voted for the Patriot Act, and skipped the recently important vote on removing telecom immunity for eavesdropping (Barack was present and voted to remove immunity).
Anyway, in her calculations to appear "tough enough", she's consistently voted against our civil interests.
It's easy to not take a stand and then criticize the opponent for the potentially mistaken (months/years down the road) vote they may have made... That's my problem with Obama... He's proven to duck down from controversial votes by abstaining or voting present, and then attacks his opponents (Edwards too) for the stand they took!!! That's scary, man...
quote:
For instance, he has attacked Clinton heavily on the Kyl-Lieberman resolution which Axelrod mentions in the above quote. The campaign is now saying “Clinton may have only voted that way because Obama wasn’t there to tell her which way to go.” But in reality, Obama wasn’t on the record at all by abstaining. One could make the argument that he did not vote waiting to see how Clinton would and then attacked her on it.
Similarly is the topic of immigration, which Obama attacked Clinton on. Obama abstained from a vote on Border Fence and Customs Appropriations, Clinton voted for it. Meanwhile Obama avoided a “REAL ID Funding” bill, Clinton voted for it.
Clinton voted against an amendment condeming MoveOn.org, which was used against her by Republicans. Obama abstained even though he made a much less controversial vote moments before it.
Obama also avoided a vote “Expressing Support for General Petraeus and All Members of the Armed Forces” which Clinton voted against. Obama avoided the controversial “Attorney General No Confidence Vote“, Clinton voted for it. A vote “Sense of the Senate on Guantanamo Bay Detainees” was avoided by Obama and yes, follow the patter, was voted for by Clinton.
Obama was also a no-show on the “Department of Homeland Security Appropriations“, Clinton voted for it.
On votes relating to the military, homeland security, illegal immigration and the Justice Department Obama was silent while Clinton put herself on the record. As Obama and the other democrats heaped scorn upon Clinton for her position on many of these bill, Senator Obama abstained from being on the official record, later giving his position on talk shows and in press releases, but not on the Senate record.
Why would Americans want a President that cannot make a decision for what he stands for? It is very EASY for a candidate not to vote on an issue so he can say he did not support something if it ends up being controversial. We need a leader that can make their own decisions and not take the easy way out. It is so ironic his speeches revolve around "change". Yet, you cannot set forth change if you don't vote for or against an issue. His record is direct proof that his eloquent speeches contradict his own actions.
DJ Eco
quote:
He voted against requiring medical care for aborted fetuses who survive. He supported allowing retired police officers to carry concealed weapons, but opposed allowing people to use handguns to defend against intruders in their homes. And the list of sensitive topics goes on. Videotapes of debates and speeches that were obtained by The Washington Times show Mr. Obama took positions during his Senate campaign on nearly a half dozen issues, ranging from the Cuba embargo to health care for illegal immigrants, that conflict with statements he has made during his run for the White House. For instance, in MSNBC's Oct. 30 presidential debate, Mr. Obama hesitantly raised his hand and joined with most of his Democratic rivals to declare that he opposed decriminalizing marijuana.
But as a U.S. Senate candidate, Mr. Obama told Illinois college students in January 2004 that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use or possession, a debate video shows.
C'mon guys, give it up. You can so knit-pick every candidate and find about them, as you did before I showed you Obama's dirty sheets. It's really easy.... It's not easy, however, to put my faith in someone with a) a small record, and b) a record that shows how oppurtunistic (moreso than Clinton) he is.
